Wednesday, 10 of March of 2010

RWA President Pershing Responds

Thank you, Deidre, for your thoughts on how RWA might improve.  And thank you, Kristen, for inviting me to answer some of Deidre’s points on this chapter’s web site.

RWA President, Diane Pershing

First let me correct some misinformation.  There was a rumor flying around the internet a couple of weeks ago and repeated in Deidre’s blog: << That disappointment intensified recently when it became apparent that RWA had not only neglected to plan a single digital workshop for this summer’s annual convention, but had refused to allow one of the industry’s best e-publishers the chance to officially discuss their program.  I believe both situations reveal that the organization is not keeping pace with current trends in the industry.>>

RWA President, Diane Pershing

Here is the actual story: Out of 400 workshop proposals this year, only two focused on digital publishing; one was deemed by the Workshop Committee to not be of the caliber needed, the other was by Deidre’s publisher, Samhain, which is not on the list of RWA Eligible Publishers (From RWA’s Policy and Procedure Manual, section 1.17.Eligible Publisher” means a romance publisher that has verified to RWA in a form acceptable to RWA, that it: …..(3) provides advances of at least $1,000 for all books; and (4) pays all authors participating in an anthology an advance of at least $500).  RWA policy prohibits a non-Eligible publisher from offering a workshop.

There is, however, a history of RWA attempting to present digital publishing information at conference: Last year, RWA brought in a highly qualified speaker, Michael Smith, Executive Director of the International Digital Publishing Forum (IDPF) to speak at the PRO Retreat. The attendance at this session was extremely low. It is impossible to justify the expense of providing qualified speakers if members aren’t interested in attending the sessions.  This year, RWA has asked a literary attorney to hold a session on “What Authors Should Know About Their Digital Rights.” The staff has not yet received a response.  They are, however, still trying to put together a panel on digital publishing, but only if it can offer in-depth and unbiased information.

Deidre writes:  << I would also like to note that in Diane Pershing’s recent RWR letter she stated that RWA must consider the needs of all its members.  I find that logic flawed because by insisting that e-published authors aren’t legitimate, haven’t achieved a recognizable benchmark—and that their publishers aren’t legitimate either—RWA is by default only representing the needs of a portion of the membership.  No wonder valuable, talented members are leaving the organization or discussing doing so.>>

This is upside-down logic.  E-published authors are only one segment of RWA’s 10,000-member population.  What of the huge majority that constitutes the rest of the membership?  I stand by my original assertion that by governing in the interest of all its members and not the few, RWA is doing its fiduciary duty.  As for members leaving and/or threatening to leave, I have been in RWA for 19 years and on the board for five.  Each year members threaten to leave because they are displeased with something.  Some do; most don’t.  No organization can make everyone happy, but RWA goes on, no matter what.

About my June column: I wrote it in the spirit of offering information on how the board makes decisions, not ammunition in a war of words.  I have received quite a lot of  support for it, from members both unpublished, print-published and even digitally published, and from the industry itself.  Obviously that was not the opinion of some,  who felt attacked.  It’s always amazing how two, three, or four people can see the same words strung together and come away with totally different reactions.  As I wrote, all of us look at any situation through our own, subjective pair of glasses. There are several pairs of glasses through which to view RWA and its attitude toward digital publishing.

Deidre wears two pair of glasses.  The first point of view is that of an author whose publisher is unhappy, an author who thinks RWA is preventing her from entering the RITA contest.  RWA is doing no such thing. Of 1,112 entries in this year’s RITA contest, 64 entries were published by small (non-NY) publishers.  34 of the entries were from publishers whose primary format is print. The remaining 30 entries were from publishers whose format is primarily electronic, Deidre’s publisher being one of these.

Deidre is also speaking as an agent, a successful agent who has taken on some digitally-published authors and negotiated nice contracts with print publishers for them, precisely because of the following and name recognition they achieved through digital publishing.  I went to the Knight Agency Web site where recent sales and great deals for their clients are rightly trumpeted.  These deals were with a number of publishers, but I didn’t see one primarily digital publisher on that list. Does she represent any authors who are remaining in the digital format and not moving over to print?

There are a number of other points of view among digitally published authors.  They fall into several groups, from those who have signed with a publisher who basically runs an author mill (lots of authors signed, publisher cleans up because of quantity, authors earn out very little if anything) to the top two or three digital publishers. This group has expressed quite a variety of demands:  (1) Some feel that because they have signed a book contract, they should be eligible to enter the RITA and join PAN, and they want their publisher to have a spotlight at conference.  (2) Others believe everyone who has signed with a publisher should be eligible to enter the RITA, but do understand the restrictions of PAN.  (3) Others want their own contest, something between the RITA and the Golden Heart.  (4) Another group wants to be able to enter the Golden Heart because they are not yet eligible for PAN.  (5) And still others totally support the point of view that they see themselves as having achieved a certain rung up on a ladder, with more rungs to climb.  They see their careers in digital publishing as a stepping stone, a way to gather experience and readership while they wait for the rewards at the top of the ladder.

Many voices, many views.  The board will be discussing all of this at the board table in July, by the way, and members are, as always, invited to drop in and observe the meeting.

Here’s another pair of glasses: The newer members, not yet PRO, but working on their craft and trying to learn all they can about the industry.  And how about the unpublished-but-working-on-it PRO members who have chosen not to go the digital route and keep submitting to print publishers, as they feel that is their best chance of earning good money? Lastly, there are PAN members who have been print-published recently or for years, who like their “advance-paying/lower royalty rate” choice, who look at the business model of “no advance/high royalty rate,” and have trouble understanding why anyone would gamble that way with a book that took so much time and effort.

10,000 members, all with different, subjective points of view.  RWA represents them all.

Deidre writes: <<Incidentally, remember that an advance is against royalties, a prepayment of income that will flow to the author.  It’s not a flat payment that implies the promise of promotion or publicity. It is money the publisher is largely confident they will recoup from sales, therefore it represents very little risk.>>

Actually, it implies that the publisher believes enough in the book that it is sure it will recoup its investment.  When there is no investment, that phrase, “a prepayment of income that will flow to the author,” is invalidated.  Will any income flow to the author?  Ever?  An advance is a guarantee that, no matter what happens with the book, there will be payment to the author for her work.

Deidre writes: << RWA’s current stance on e-books is that a publisher must offer at least a $1,000 advance in order to qualify for legitimacy.>>

What is meant by “legitimacy?”  Members in PAN?  Since July 1, 2007 RWA has added 316 new members to PAN. 75 authors’ qualifying titles were published by small, non-NY publishing companies. 19 of the 75 qualified with books by publishers whose primary form of publication is print. Of the remaining 56, 37 qualified with books published by either Samhain, Loose ID, or Ellora’s Cave, which leaves a total of 19 authors who qualified for PAN with other electronic presses.  Does legitimacy mean number of entries in the RITA contest?  See above for stats on that.

Is Deidre again talking about that comped workshop space at conference? I am curious as to why digitally published authors fight so hard for their publishers’ rights, but fight so little for their own.  But let’s go back to that conference again.

There are hundreds of publishers whose business model is to make money by signing many authors and selling small quantities of each book. This model does not produce significant income for any author. There are other publishers who do a much better job with regard to acquiring and editing the books, but publish almost exclusively in electronic format.  For every author who does well under the “no advance/higher royalty rate”  business plan, there are many more who earn very little money because  of the limited distribution channels and lack of impulse buys.

All digital publishers are not created equal.  As recently as 2007, one start-up digital publisher filed for bankruptcy after acquiring the works of an estimated 154 RWA members, and in 2006, two individuals completely unknown to RWA set up a table near registration and started pitching their publishing company to RWA conference attendees. Authors were harmed by the actions of both companies. In response, RWA consulted with its attorneys, and RWA’s Executive Director spent hours corresponding with authors and publishers in hopes of having rights reverted to authors.

Whether intended or not, publishers receive tacit endorsement by being featured at RWA’s conference. Most conference attendees expect RWA to help them navigate the path to publication. RWA has limited workshop space available and therefore must limit free workshop space and access to RWA members at appointments to those publishers that offer a minimum advance for every author. It is the only means of assuring every single one of the authors will realize income from signing with that publisher. RWA’s mission and tax-exempt purpose relate to the business of writing, i.e. the commercial exploitation of an author’s intellectual property. Why would an organization that advocates for authors’ careers encourage its members to relinquish rights without minimum compensation? I must also wonder why an agent would support the practice.

No publisher is banned from conference. Those who cannot offer the basic minimum to meet RWA standards to all authors may still attend. However, they must pay the registration fee and make their own arrangements for space to meet with authors.

Deidre writes: << For instance, HarperStudio has created an initiative whereby authors will forego advances and traditional royalties in favor of a fifty-fifty profit share.  No advance, no returns, and a larger share of royalties… perhaps RWA will soon feel the need to denounce   Harper Collins.>>

Nope, not denouncing Harper Collins at all, but consider the authors they will be asking to join this initiative—established print authors with reputation and readership.  A no-advance model, even a 50-50 model will always benefit those at the top.  Brad Pitt can work for no upfront money and accept a nice piece of the net profits of his next film, but what about the actor in the same film with three lines?  He’s still considered a pro, has his SAG card.  Is he to work for no money?  How will he live?  After all the percentages have been counted, he has a really good chance of getting nothing at all.

What does RWA do with all of the authors not at the top of the ladder, who are not published by the top two or three digital publishers?  For authors who have slaved away for years on their books and then sold them to digital publishers and who get nearly no recognition, sales or financial return, who else will speak for them if RWA does not?

Deidre writes: <<RWA’s position makes me wonder if they’re unaware that New York publishers are now paying 1/3 of the “advance” upon publication? Or sometimes even later than that, since with some hard cover contracts, that last 1/3 or ¼ isn’t paid until a year after publication? And sometimes it’s not even until the paperback version is published? To translate, the traditional definition of an “advance” has changed so drastically that it amazes me that RWA would continue to use it as the only measure of validity.>>

Actually, the RWA board’s published members have not experienced receiving any part of their advance a year *after* publication, but thank you, Deidre, for bringing it to the board’s attention.  The office will follow up on this.  Even so, most career-focused authors have books in various stages of completion and publication, so there is a steady flow of money to them.  And whenever the money does get there, there will be money, in the thousands of dollars.  It is guaranteed.  Can the same be said for the digital model?

She writes: <<Meanwhile, let’s talk about RWA’s position that e-published authors who make more than $1,000 in royalties are a rare exception.  As an agent, I have seen a fair number of statements for clients writing for Ellora’s Cave and Samhain.  The majority of these writers have passed that $1000 benchmark within the first few months.  I’m sure some of the smaller e-publishers sell fewer copies of titles, but lumping all e-publishers together and stating that most of their authors don’t earn $1,000 a title is misleading>>

Deidre wants Ellora’s Cave and Samhain to be treated differently, their authors treated differently, because many may actually be earning money with this business model (although, from the new PAN applications, it doesn’t seem that the “majority” of authors at either publisher is doing as well as Deidre claims).  She is arguing for an exception to be made for these two publishers, one of which happens to be hers.  And you know what?  If I wrote for either house I would most likely feel the same way. But if many are already eligible for PAN and many can enter the RITA, what are we talking about?  That “legitimacy” again?  That comped workshop space at conference?

Here’s where I don the pair of glasses of president of RWA, which offers a different point of view.  RWA issues a challenge to Ellora’s Cave and Samhain:  Pay your authors a minimum $1000 advance against royalties.  If they’re already doing so well, you will lose nothing.  You will be showing good faith in the authors you sign that you believe in them and their potential.  And Romance Writers of America will be thrilled to accept Samhain’s digital workshop proposal for next year and offer comped workshop space and editor appointments for both publishers—and any others who accept this challenge—at next year’s conference in Nashville.

Deidre writes: <<If RWA truly wants to protect authors, then it’s time to join the 21st century, where the rules of the digital market are changing daily>> and <<RWA, protect your membership by becoming innovative and fully educated about the changing face of digital publishing.>>

Actually, RWA is quite happily ensconced in the 21st century.  Everyone on the board of directors studies the market, reads online and print journals.  RWA’s staff keeps the board apprised of everything in the industry that’s happening on a regular basis, including in the digital market.  Decisions are based not on a market that’s “changing daily,” but on the most reliable information, supported by facts, rather than anecdote.

Up until a few years ago, print publishing was pretty much the only game in town.  RWA has adapted to the rise of digital publishing in a steady and, yes, careful manner (broadening PAN and RITA entry requirements, all First Sales reported in the RWR, etc.); it is not adapting quickly enough for some, but RWA does not and should not ever move more quickly than is prudent.  With any proposed change, it is the responsibility of the board and staff to gather input and data from a variety of sources, after which there are task forces and/or committees formed to study the results and make suggestions.  These suggestions are discussed and debated at the board table for hours, passed on to RWA’s lawyer if necessary, checked against Bylaws and the Policy and Procedure Manual, all before any final decision can be made.  A board of directors has a fiduciary duty to act in what it believes is the best interest of the organization.

The Association of American Publishers estimates total Net Sales for all books in 2008 at $24.3 billion.  That study also indicates that e-book sales increased by 68.4%. There is no doubt that the growth is impressive.  However, the study also shows that, even though the segment is growing rapidly, it still represents less than 2% ($113 million) of total book sales, in all categories.  http://www.publishers.org/main/IndustryStats/documents/S12008Final.pdf.

RWA is aware that technology will make the future of publishing more and more dependent on the digital model; not only does it conserve paper and is more portable, but younger readers, used to cell phone and lap tops and every new gadget, will, as they age, bring those preferences with them.  There is no doubt that we are currently and for the future in the age of electronic delivery of product.  RWA is not trying to stem the tide; it is advocating for fair treatment for its members.

Calling RWA out of step with the times because it does not think the “no advance/high royalty rate” business model is fair to all its authors is a rather narrow way to define the organization.  Just because something is currently popular with those who have chosen to embrace it doesn’t make it necessarily right.  Or wrong, either.  Time alone will tell, and, in time, RWA will make any changes necessary to further the professional interests of its members.  That’s what RWA is all about.

The publishing industry is in a constant struggle to survive, authors’ numbers dip and rise and dip again; they are dropped, they are signed, and nothing is ever certain.  This is why RWA must be a strong and loyal advocate for them.  RWA believes it is crucial to stand firm in our conviction that an author has a right to guaranteed payment for her work.

Thank you for this chance to respond.

Diane Pershing

President, RWA

Comments RSS TrackBack 285 comments

Melissa Schroeder

in June 19th, 2009 @ 03:36

I guess I would believe all of this, if RWA has not done everything they could to keep digital publishers out. From the first, the argument was money. When they realized that some pubs, EC in particular, were elgilble under their old rules, they came up with a new system, one that allows a NY publisher who gives the lowest of advances to their authors(and apparently is getting a rep for not paying on time), but keeps a different business model out. What is funny, RWA never hesitates to count EC, Samhain, Loose Id, and others in their annual sales of romance–I am sure.
I spoke last year at RWA on digital publishing(guess that slipped your mind to mention). Shelley Bradley, a long time RWA member and published author, was another of the speakers. And, OH! Angie spoke with us. So you had no problem with it last year, but this year you did. I do not work for nothing. I make five figures. There are many, many authors who don’t make that, but they did get their measley 1K advance. The Trisk episode would be forgettable, other than the fact that I stood next to a chapter president as she told Allison Kelley(and she formalized this with a letter) that Trisk had not been paying their authors. She was ignored, and I have my theories why.
I have to renew by the end of July, your comments in the last few weeks makes it very hard to renew. It isn’t that I can’t enter the Ritas(which they kept my money but apparently didn’t judge my book from what I have found out) but the attitude. Because I choose a different career path, one that has garnered an agent and a five figure income, I am treated as if I don’t belong…as if I am not wanted.
And at this point, I am thinking that paying to be part of a CLUB, because that is what you all have made it –not a serious writers’ org, where I am not wanted, is a little hard to swallow. In these bad economic times, I tend to make smarter choices, and at the moment I have to say paying to stay a member isn’t a really smart choice.


Alessia Brio

in June 19th, 2009 @ 03:44

Thank you, Ms. Pershing, for taking the time to respond to these concerns from such a minority of RWA’s vast membership.

Please allow me to address just one of your points, perhaps the single most important assertion you’ve made:

“10,000 members, all with different, subjective points of view. RWA represents them all.”

I am a member of RWA, and quite frankly, I can’t think of a damned thing RWA is doing to represent me. I am small press & digitally published BY CHOICE. I have not sought NY representation BY CHOICE, even though I’ve been asked to do so by several NYTimes bestsellers who’ve critiqued my work. I PREFER small press and digital publishing, and I do not feel slighted in the least by the lack of an advance against my royalties. I have chosen to make a career of digital publishing, and I have every confidence in that decision as well as the small press I’ve chosen as my primary publisher.

I joined RWA in order to help lead (by request) a workshop for one of its chapters, Passionate Ink. Incidentally, that workshop–the one I helped develop–is being presented at Nationals this year. I was excluded, however. I’m not worthy of RWA’s lofty recognition, and my name on the workshop application would decrease its odds of being selected. So be it.

So, while I appreciate RWA’s loyalty to its traditionally-published membership and zealous focus on an antiquated business model, that one assertion is flat out false.


Will Belegon

in June 19th, 2009 @ 04:12

I simply can’t justify spending the money to support an organization where I already have two strikes, being both e-pubbed and a writer of erotica.

RWA is setting itself up to be remembered alongside the Polish Calvary, who gloriously charged German Panzer Divisions. Yes, very brave men. And very dead ones.

Sorry, I don’t see that as good business.


Jennifer Colgan

in June 19th, 2009 @ 04:20

I can certainly understand the RWA wanting to protect authors from fly-by-night publishers, and the sad fact is, there have been far too many of them. However, I still believe a change in the policies is in order to give greater recognition to the publishers who ARE providing steady, legitimate income to their authors and to the authors who are working so hard to achieve their goals. A stance against predatory or unprofessional publishers is one thing, but a stance against authors is something else.


Ella Drake

in June 19th, 2009 @ 04:30

Why wouldn’t a professional organization, in presenting it’s members the best of the best in it’s yearly National Conference, look at each workshop proposal and make decisions based on merit? Why not bring in the speakers with the most experience? Why not bring in the Subject Matter Experts in the best position to inform RWA members? Any policy that prohibits this needs a second look.


Amie Stuart

in June 19th, 2009 @ 05:10

>>Up until a few years ago, print publishing was pretty much the only game in town.

This is not a new argument. As JC Wilder said in the previous thread, it’s 10 years old. That’s not a few years. The arguments and the treatment of Epubbed authors hasn’t changed in ten years. Take a look: http://www.crescentblues.com/3_4issue/rwa.shtml


Eliza Gayle

in June 19th, 2009 @ 05:13

Every time I read these things I get more and more disgusted. I left RWA not because I hated the organization or it’s members but only because I could not justify the cost in my mind of belonging to an organization that not only does not represent me but blatantly dismisses my choices as foolhardy.

There are times when I miss my local chapter and consider rejoining just for that but in this economic downturn is that where my money is best well spent? You state that RWA serves all it’s members and I would ask that you supply your membership with more specific data on how that works. Do you know what percentage of your members are either digitally published or seeking to be digitally published under the non advance model? Is it 1%, 4%, 10% or some other surprisingly high number? Would I be surprised by the number? Would you? (and no I am not just referring to the PAN qualified membership) Please show us with hard statistical data that by not representing your digitally published members that RWA is still serving all of its members.

Personally I don’t care about the RITA or whether or not you call me PAN, but I do care about fair and equal education and opportunities to the largest growing segment in our industry. If you want to call that “legitimacy” then so be it.

One day I hope to return to RWA if nothing else for the opportunities at my chapter level where they don’t have the hang ups that our board level organization cannot seem to get past.

In the meantime, I look forward to hearing the statistical data on how many members in RWA are in fact involved with digital publishing under the non advance model.


April Morelock

in June 19th, 2009 @ 05:18

Well Diane, I guess you told us where we fit in the the scheme of things at RWA.


Terri Schaefer

in June 19th, 2009 @ 05:20

Alas, reading this response moves me closer to saying goodbye to RWA. Lest anyone think I’m complaining without putting anything into the organization, I’ve been a member for eight years (I think…it all blurs), and in those eight years I’ve been my chapter’s webmistress for two, President-Elect, President and run our nationally-recognized contest for three.

The only reason I belong to RWA now is because of my local chapter. They recognized me as an small-press/e-pub author from day one. Hell, they recruited me because of it. And now, because of the increasingly disturbing “my way or the highway” commentary I’ve been reading, I’ll be leaving them, as well as the national organization, beause you can’t have one without the other. Too bad, because I get more from my chapter-sisters than I ever have from National.

But I digress. Not once, in all the years I’ve been both a general member and a local board member, has anyone at the National Board level asked the membership for their opinion on e-publishing as a whole. Yes, we’ve talked about it ad nauseum on loops and at a memorable, marathon AGM in Denver, but no one has ever pursued a poll asking how many folks are actually small-press/e-published or even what their opinion on it is. I’ll bet a good chunk of change it’s a LOT higher number than TPTB in Houston suspect.

So I have to respectfully disagree with Ms. Pershing’s assumption above about the differing points of view of digitally published authors. You’ve NEVER asked. You hear the complaints of the minority who are vocal and willing to make waves.

With that I think I’ll sign off and go back to writing e-books. I make better money from them than I ever would writing for Avalon…and heck, I even get paid quarterly. Go figure!


Shayla Black

in June 19th, 2009 @ 05:21

I’ve been an RWA member for 20 years now. I’ve never been tempted to leave the organization until now. Ms. Pershing, I find your arguments to be skewed and one-sided. I completely agree that we need to help memebers steer clear of fly-by-night publishers. What I don’t agree with is failing to embrace AN ENTIRE BUSINESS MODEL of a new medium, just because it doesn’t fit with the experience of print published authors and the model that we all know is antiquated. Digital publishing doesn’t work the same as print publishing, not just for romance, but as an industry. You can’t proclaim from upon high that for any publisher to participate in RWA events that they must give $1000 advances. You want to dictate to publishers how to run their business just for your attention? Really?

I’m a primarily print published author with 20ish books to my print publishing credit. I’m also multi-published electronically. I CAN speak about the differences from an experienced point of view. How many people currently on the RWA board can say the same?

You’ve used the $1000 advance as the measuring stick by which to judge a publisher worthy. Okay, let’s look at the REST of the publishing cycle. I’ll use myself as an example. I agreed to a deal with one of my print publishers at the beginning of February. I am now perusing the second version of the contract (after sending the first back for revisions). Even if I sign today, I will not see the first third of my advance until late July/early August. Let’s say my advance was $1000 (though frankly, I would never agree to such a ridiculous deal). I would be getting a third of that, minus my agent’s fee ($300) about 5-6 months after agreeing to the deal. If I had e-published that same book, it would already be released most likely and I would already be seeing checks for NON-RETURNABLE downloads.

By the time my print book comes out in late 2010, I will finally have made the other $600 of my advance, BUT it will be AT LEAST another 6 months before I’m eligible for royalties. If I’d e-published the book, I would have cashed 15-18 months worth of checks already. Why is waiting until 2011 to MAYBE see more money “more career focused” than having the book out within months, having your royalties paid out monthly/quarterly, and having those royalties be based on ALL the actual sales of my book?

Let’s fast forward to a year after the print book’s release. I might have received 2 royalty statements now from my print publisher and I would have made money…but they are holding reserves against returns that may or may not happen. And THEY are determining what those reserves are. THEY deciding when to release those reserves. They only pay me twice a year, so I have to wait to receive a statements that are nearly impossible to read. How is the better for me as an author to wait years for money that the publisher utterly controls?

Let’s say that as a print book, it didn’t sell well. Let’s say I only sold 2k copies. Dismal in the print world, agreed, but not totally unheard of in the era of publishers just tossing books out there and hoping they find footing in the reading public. As a print author, if I’d been publishing in mass market, I’d just about earn out my measly $1000 advance. In the electronic world, I would have cleared $4160, roughly. Hmm, which would I rather have?

Granted, as a print author, I’m likely to sell more than 2k books, but even if did, I’d have to sell 8k mass markets to make the same amount of money that I did selling 2k e-books. And please don’t tell me that’s impossible. I’ve done it more than once. In the first month of sales alone. For more than the first month of sales. I have royalty statements to prove it. I have one e-book in particular that made me over 5 figures in 3 months. How many print books do that? How many among RWA’s growing PAN membership can claim that the first third of their advance amounts to 5 figures?

If being career focused means we’re here to make money, does it really matter what business model it comes from? Last I heard, money was money.

BTW, instead of finding creative ways to keep e-publishers who have proven reliable from attending RWA conferences, why doesn’t RWA put that collective brain power to something that effects ALL PAN members, like a meaty task force dealing with Internet piracy?


Shiloh Walker

in June 19th, 2009 @ 05:22

Ms. Pershing

as you said, publishing is a constant struggle for survival. When a working business model is found, the publisher should stay with it.

Ellora’s Cave & Samhain have a working business model.

The way I see it, one of the reasons digital publishing does work is because it keeps a much lower overhead than print publishing.

Their model works.

Yet in order for RWA to acknowledge them, you want them to change their business model. It appears RWA is doing nothing to evolve with the changing times-it appears as though RWA’s board wants all changes to come from the publishers.

I know I’ve mentioned this before, but it seems every year or so, there’s some move from the board that almost seemed specifically designed to take a slap at digital publishing. Ebooks can’t be entered into this contest. Books from this publisher can’t be signed here. Lets ‘define’ romance. Okay, you’re recognized-okay, now we’re changing the rules, and you aren’t. Such & such ads aren’t allowed from this publisher.

Please take a moment to consider this: How would you feel If you were in a specific segment of the industry that was CONSTANTLY, and yes, to me, it feels very constant, receiving slaps from the changes or ideas made by the board?

I don’t think I speak for myself when I say that e-pubbed authors aren’t seeing much of a welcome from the board.

EC & Samhain have working business models that have worked for a quite a few authors, and can work for many more, yet you want them to make a change that could have detrimental effects-they keep low overhead, but you want to them start offering advances so they appear more ‘legit’ in the boards eyes-there goes the low overhead and who knows what sort of problems that could cause?

I would suggest that the board find a different way to look at small and epresses. Find different criteria, because the $1000 deal is a lousy one. Perhaps basing it on sales & # years of in business. Most of the lousy ones go belly up in under two years. The board can find other ways to look at epubs and they NEED to-epubs have a different working business model than print and they WORK differently, so they do need to be VIEWED differently.

I do have a queston-Ms. Knight mentioned the Harper Collins issue where authors will receive no advance, but higher royalties. If this works for them and trickles over to others-will those publishers no longer be recognized? Somehow, I don’t see that happening.

I’m starting to feel RWA has outlived it’s usefulness for me. I stayed for my local chapters, but if RWA has no desire to change with the times, then it really can’t offer the growth and encouragement a lot of authors need.


Ember

in June 19th, 2009 @ 05:23

RWA has quite a catch-22 going with their workshop requirements. The very people most qualified to give education-hungry members what they need – hard, inside facts on what digital publishers are able to offer writers, and what they aren’t – have evidently been disallowed from speaking at workshops. I appreciate the now-familiar quote that defines an Eligible Publisher, but I would appreciate more information on where the policy that “prohibits a non-Eligible publisher from offering a workshop” came into being. Workshops are offered by many individuals who are not Eligible publishers each year.

When Michael Smith was brought in to speak last year, I would have been very interested in hearing him. However, RWA choose to only offer attendance to this speaker to PRO members. Limiting your audience, then being disappointed at the turnout, seems to be setting yourself up for dismay at the results.

You make the point that “There are a number of other points of view among digitally published authors.” and then go into some detail about the many “demands” these people have made. While I am taken aback by that combative statement, so similar to your tone in the June RWR, I am not surprised to hear that if there are 5, or in fact many more, differing opinions on how RWR could better support and represent its digitally published authors. Speaking as a digitally published author myself, almost anything RWA did to change its treatment of the members who have chosen to publish outside of print could be seen as an improvement. I doubt anyone expects that RWR can make all 10,000 of its members happy, but I think different actions could make a larger number of them less unhappy. “Making our members less unhappy” isn’t part of the RWA mission statement, but for most organizations it doesn’t need to be.

You speak of other points of view – the new non-PRO members, the unpublished PRO members, the PAN print published members who like the status quo. Yes, these are all segments of the varied RWA membership, but I don’t see where considering support and recognition of digital published authors would negatively impact any of these authors.

In attempting to show how many different ways members paths and goals can be defined, RWA ends up becoming ever more exclusive. We are all writers. We all share the common goal of transforming the worlds of our readers through putting our words before them. Why can’t that common goal be embraced more than the differences that have divided us, often unwillingly, into smaller and weaker parts of the whole?

I do not want Ellora’s Cave and Samhain to be treated differently. I want all authors who consider their writing a business to be treated equally, whether digitally published or print published, advance receiving or royalty based. And I would like to see all publishers who treat their authors fairly, who keep to the letter of their legally signed contracts, treated with the same respect and privileges. Issuing a “challenge” to a publisher to change their core business model, to shift the financial ground their business plan is built around, is both bad business sense and bad leadership advice.

Thank you for your public response to what is a hot topic. I look forward to hearing reports from the current board and committee on their findings and proposed actions.


Diana Castilleja

in June 19th, 2009 @ 05:28

I’m sorry. I’m not awake to read all of this at once. I stopped at ‘author mill’. I might come back and try it again when my head doesn’t hurt.


Sara Thacker

in June 19th, 2009 @ 05:38

Glad I’m no longer in RWA. What a load of drama to have to put up with.


Marie

in June 19th, 2009 @ 05:44

Ms. Pershing, I appreciate you responding. Yet, nothing has changed. You mentioned the PRO retreat last year in San Francisco – no one looks at the workshops being presented againt the PRO retreat. I would have attended the PRO retreat, but there were several workshops that were not being taped that I wanted to attend. Since the PRO retreat was being taped it gave me the opportunity to hear Michael Smith’s presentation. Also, the change in moving the PRO retreat time has created other issues for me (and I’m sure other members).

RWA right now seems to only promote and agree with NY print publishers. It doesn’t matter that these same publishers are doing e-books and making royalties much lower than e-publishers to RWA. RWA accepts then without pause because they have done print before. RWA is not looking after it’s members by closing its eyes to the digital world and what is happening.

I do not understand why RWA makes it so hard for their members to be informed of all publishing models, and why they continue to exclued small pubs and e-pubs. This has only happened in the last few years. At the 2005 Reno conference Ellora’s Cave was able to give a spotlight, in 2006 in Atlanta there were more of the e-publishers giving spotlights and editor appointments. In 2007 in Dallas I attended at least 4 e-publisher spotlights, and they were allowed to give appointments. All the suddenly when the board changed in 2007-2008 epublishers were no longer welcome at the conference unless they paid their own way (which they were doing anyway). They aren’t allowed in the RWA conference schedule to do spotlights or give appointments. So RWA is denying its members valuable information so a member can make an informed decision.

For 2009 the DC conference RWA turned down Samhain because they’re not on RWA’s list of Eligible Publishers, but in 2007 it was okay. And it’s okay if Samhain publishers go to National and speak on a panel with other authors, but not to present a panel on their own.

RWA talks about wanting to educate it’s members about the busines, but by ignoing e-publishers you “are not” educating your members. And you wonder why members sign bad contracts?

You commented that RWA asked a literary attorney to hld a session on “What Authors Should Know about their Digital Rights.” and there has been no response, and that they (RWA) is still trying to put a panel together on digital publishing, but only if it can offer in-depth and unbiased information.

Excuse me, but who is to say that Samhain would offer bias information? Who is saying they wouldn’t offer in-depth information. At this late date (barley one month before conference) who are you going to bump from the schedule to make room for this.

RWA’s professonalism is beginning to suffer because of this. I no longer see RWA National as a professional organization for writers, but an exclusive club that only allows who RWA National feels should be there.

The only reason I still belong to RWA is because of my local chapter. They are more than open to e-publishers, and I recieve a heck of a lot more information from them than I do from RWA. There is none of this – print is better than e-publishers. I dread the day when RWA decides to regulate the chapters again (I see this coming) so the local chapter can no longer recognize their published e-book author.

You mentioned that any member is allowed to attend the board meeting in July or any board meeting. I agree that a member can, but they must sit there quietly, they can not ask questions, ask for clarification on a point or anything else.

While there are 10,000 members of RWA, RWA is ignoring a portion of its members (which is bigger than you realize). With the dues increase I believe RWA will see a decrease in it’s membership and unfortunately the membership will lose valuable knowleged for those members who are published in e-books.

RWA is burying it’s head in the sand and when it finally wakes up I’m afraid it will be too late.


Brenna Lyons

in June 19th, 2009 @ 05:45

Actually, the older e-publishers are up in the 15-17 y/o range now. That’s established, strong publishers.

And FWIW, I laugh at the idea that e-published authors who make $1000 are the exception. I made nearly that much (in the $900 range) in one month of a novella-length releasing recently…actually less than a month, since it didn’t release on the 1st. I made it in two months of a re-release of mine that was a Fictionwise bestseller the first time around. I’m hardly top of the dog pile in indie press, though for my individual publishers (today…at Fictionwise), I have the #1 bestselling for one of them (with two NY Times bestselling authors…ONE of which is still working in both NY and indie, thanks) behind me, #6 bestseller for a second (and have 5 of the top 25 selling books for that publisher at FW today), and #8 for the third. Those are individual book results.

I know people who make a lot more money in e-publishing than I do. I know people who went from indie to NY and CHOSE to first write in both and then came home to indie/e only, after being in NY, because they made more money in indie. One notable one earned out her NY advance in less than 6 months and started taking home NY royalties and STILL earned more money in indie/e press. Is she the exception to the rules? Maybe…or maybe the exceptions are more numerous than RWA thinks they are.

Whether RWA accepts it or not, it is possible to do well in indie press/e-publishing. But, this is where I think RWA fails their members. To do service to ALL members, they HAVE to embrace teaching those who are still learning what their options are and not just pushing them toward those few publishers who give that $1000 advance. Individual chapters excel at this, but I’ve seen no sign that National does. As long as National is hiding its head in the sand, not teaching them how to vett indies (to protect themselves), not teaching them how to vett contracts (to protect themselves), not teaching them what to expect for terms, not teaching them how to market most effectively (well, they MIGHT be doing that…not sure), they aren’t serving those who are still learning appropriately, IMO.

What I find amusing about the whole thing is that NY publishers who have started lines like the Harlequin Spice Briefs are NOT offering $1000 advances for those lines. Not nearly, but RWA turns a blind eye there, don’t they? Of course they do. This is Harlequin. No sour grapes, but it makes a point. They dismiss what they want to dismiss and accept what they want to accept. As always with RWA, it seems.

Whoever said that they have changed the line for being “recognized” again and again, you’re right. Several of my publishers have stopped trying in disgust. It’s not that they can’t make the line. They get got tired of making it and having it change. So have I, actually. That’s why you’re unlikely to find me joining either RWA or SFWA. If I could join chapters only, I’d be there in an instant, but National is not worth the blood pressure and heartburn.

For all that they “claim” they know the market, they seem to miss the big point on indie press, but I don’t believe that’s an accident. They MEAN to miss it, I’m sure. That point is?

In order to kowtow to RWA’s ridiculous demands, indie presses would have to become something they are not. They would have to do one of a few things…put themselves into debt to offer the first year or more of advances, because indies don’t pay out until they have cash in hand, on their current systems…or take on investors, which means putting themselves in the same deplorable situation as many NY conglomerates find themselves in, answering to investors and sacrificing innovation to “proven practices,” resulting in diminishing returns. Thanks, no. I prefer my indie publishers just as they are.

My personal two cents… RWA has no business telling a working model to change for the comfort of others. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. There’s nothing wrong with the indie/e model. What’s wrong is RWA’s idea of shaving the perfect circle into a square to fit their personal pegboard.

And not being a toddler, I don’t need RWA to protect me by placing an arbitrary line that has nothing at all to do with longevity, quality, or ethical business practices in place to “judge” my publishers for me. I’m an adult. I know what questions to ask and what to look for. When I still choose wrong, that’s my problem, and no one else’s. As she said, RWA has chosen wrong, as well. So, why should I trust them to “protect me,” when I should be doing it myself?


Cat Grant

in June 19th, 2009 @ 05:50

Thank you for your response, Ms. Pershing.

Can I get a refund of the $85 I sent you for my renewal last March? This is not the kind of leadership I paid for.


Kathryn Lively

in June 19th, 2009 @ 05:56

When my RWA membership expires, I will not renew. I had hoped, with the acceptance of the GLBT chapter into the fold, we would see the changes in the organization many have hoped for. I can see now there will always be a level of elitism here.

I had to deal with the star-bellied Sneetches in high school. I’m almost forty, enough of it. I’ve invested money in RWA and haven’t seen a return.


Jaci Burton

in June 19th, 2009 @ 06:11

I have been an RWA member for as long as I’ve been writing, and frankly RWA’s stance on this concerns me. The digital age is here, and it’s here for all authors RWA represents, not just epublished authors. Every authors’ books are being produced digitally, and every author needs to be educated about digital rights, digital royalties, digital piracy, the pros and cons about releasing books digitally, what publishers are putting in our contracts about digital books and rights and all the nuances of having an electronic book. And yet I’ve seen nothing from RWA about this and as a member this frustrates me.

I started out in epublishing six years ago and did very well there before moving to NY print publishing. In fact, if it wasn’t for my epublished background, I’m not sure I would have made it to NY print. How does an author do very well in epublishing? Wouldn’t it be great to know that? How are writers going to find that out if RWA doesn’t allow anyone to speak about it? I’ve also read Angela James proposed workshop on epublishing that was not accepted by RWA, and frankly I’m dumbfounded. Believe me it is not a one sided, Samhain only workshop. It is digital publishing in its entirety, a great introduction into the digital publishing business model from what exactly is epublishing to what to look for and avoid in contracts, digital vs print publishing, monies being earned in digital publishing, dispelling myths about digital publishing and even what kinds of hardware is being sold to read ebooks on. You know, all those things writers need to be aware of.

My NY print books are also being released digitally now, as are most of my peers. Digital publishing is a fact of life and I’d like RWA to start addressing it. Figuring out how to recognize the top epublishers–who know the most about this business–is a good way to start, instead of doing their best to exclude the people who could help their members the most.

I need an organization that is representing me with their eyes wide open, not leading blind and refusing to acknowledge that which they don’t understand.

A $1000 advance does not make me a successful author, nor does it make me safe and comfortable. You need a different business model to mark success for an author.


katiebabs

in June 19th, 2009 @ 06:15

The publishing industry is in a constant struggle to survive? So what you are saying is that print pubs are more important than epubs, so screw the epubs?
Why not be an advocate for both?
Such a disappointing response.


J.C. Wilder

in June 19th, 2009 @ 06:16

I disagree, Diane. RWA has made some concessions after drawn-out contentious discussions with its membership. The board has consistently dug in its heels where epublishing is concerned. I pay the same amount of dues that every other published author pays and I should be afforded the same rights. Why can’t RWA learn to separate the author from the method of delivery? I know several Five Star authors who only received 1k total payment for their novels yet they can still enter the RITA. Many epublished authors make more than 1k on a single title but because my books but because my publisher is an ebook first pub rather than paper or hardback – I can’t play in the reindeer games?
RWA should not be vetting publishers to begin with. Maybe a better approach is to create a database or clearing house of info about publishers rather than trying to hold publishers to an arbitrary set of standards.

ePublishing has been around since 1996 – that’s more than just a few years. I realize this is a small point but it’s been around long enough to prove its here to stay.

It’s this kind of outlook that constantly puts RWA behind the pack in terms of writer’s organizations. While traditional print publishing remains stagnant (with a growth rate of less than 3% for all of last year) these statistics should be a wakeup call to both the Board and the membership that as an organization, we need to work to get ahead or stay on par with emerging technologies. I’ve been a member of RWA for 15 years and this organization is constantly playing catch-up rather than being proactive to stay abreast of the rapidly changing face of publishing.

As is defining epublishing by advance amounts. I don’t think RWA understands the epub business model enough to make informed decisions about the industry. I constantly see misinformation being touted as ‘fact’ and honestly it makes my eyes go crossed. If I can do research on a publisher RWA and its authors can as well. Anyone who chooses a publisher based on RWA’s stamp of approval is a fool.
Using RWA’s scenario, let’s look at a possible outcome for an author with NY and with a larger, more established epublisher and the total payout for one novella is 3k.
Author A – with an advance of 1k – they sign the contract on January 1 so they receive 1/3 (333.33) in January. They turn in the book in June 15 and receive the next 1/3 (333.33). The book is published on December 31 and they receive the final 1/3 (333.34). Now, thanks to reserves against returns, it’s not unusual to have further royalties held for 18 month or longer. So I’m not out of line in saying Author A has made about 1k in the first 2 years since signing the contract.
Author B goes with an epublisher and with the same scenario minus the advance – sign the contract on January 1, turn in the book in June 15 and the book is published on December 31. Unlike NY, most ePubs pay monthly so when your Author B’s book comes out in December and they receive their first payment in February and that first payment might be 1000. (remember, total earn out of 3k for both authors) Then March comes around and guess what, check two arrives (usually about 70-80% the size of the first one) so its about 750. Then comes April and another check arrives for 500. Then May its 300…and on and on.
Author B has made the bulk of their 3k in the 12 months after publication while Author A is still waiting for their first royalty check hoping they’ve made more than 1k to cover the advance. The kicker to this is Author B hasn’t factored in the eventual release of the paperback version – usually within a year of ebook release – and for many pubs, the author is paid every either quarterly or bi-annually for paperback royalties.
Does this make any sense to you? The first author may get her 1k a month or two faster but Author B will make more money in a shorter period of time.
I take my career very seriously and I’ve worked hard to educate myself and to accomplish all of the same goals as any traditionally pubbed author and I pay the same $ in dues to RWA. Why should the trad pubbed author be treated any differently than I am when our goals are the same?


Leslie Dicken

in June 19th, 2009 @ 06:17

Shiloh said >>I know I’ve mentioned this before, but it seems every year or so, there’s some move from the board that almost seemed specifically designed to take a slap at digital publishing. Ebooks can’t be entered into this contest. Books from this publisher can’t be signed here. Lets ‘define’ romance. Okay, you’re recognized-okay, now we’re changing the rules, and you aren’t. Such & such ads aren’t allowed from this publisher.<<

I think THIS is what pisses me off more than anything. The fact is that Samhain WAS able to participate before this year. But each year there is some chance, somewhere, which excludes e-publishers and their authors from benefits. I don't get it. Why is it okay one year but not the next?


Amie Stuart

in June 19th, 2009 @ 06:19

>>What I find amusing about the whole thing is that NY publishers who have started lines like the Harlequin Spice Briefs are NOT offering $1000 advances for those lines.

Brenna….Not to get completely off topic :D but I’ve heard that the advances on the Briefs are $ 750-1000. Frankly I’d be more interested in knowing the royalty rate since I seem to remember a brouhaha over harlequin paying abysmal e-royalties a while back (and I”m talking years) ;)


Courtney Milan

in June 19th, 2009 @ 06:22

I am a print published author, but I would never say that my e-published sisters were not career focused. I understand that RWA needs to do what is best for all of its members, and I appreciate that that is what this is all about.

But I am not sure why it is not advocating for greater openness and discussion of actual sales from e-publishers, so that members can make decisions with more data on their hands, rather than paternalistically telling people that you don’t appreciate a certain business model.

There’s no question in my mind that an e-published author who puts out two or three (shorter) titles a year with one of the solid, respected houses can earn more money than a print published author who earns a $1000 advance on a book, where the publisher assigns her one publishing slot per year, and if her sales are insufficient she’ll be cut. That doesn’t even seem like a contest.

It’s certainly true that there is more risk in e-publishing than in print publishing. That’s because e-pubs take more risk: They print riskier material (e.g., Deidre Knight’s own “Butterfly Tattoo”), they can print material that is of unfortunate length for print publishers (too short or too long to be a novella), they can print material where there is no obvious genre or marketing niche. And it’s also clear that people can make a career through e-publishing–that is, they can turn a profit.

Make no mistake, e-publishing is a riskier business model. But the way to combat risks is not to reallocate them from one party to another. It’s to increase the spread of information, so that people can distinguish between the houses that really are “author mills” (and yes, I believe those exist) and the ones that lavish careful attention and editing on their books (and yes, those exist, too), so that consumers trust their work and purchase enough copies to make a viable career.

I understand that RWA has to make decisions in the best interests of all of its members, but I wish it would recognize that sometimes, its members are quite capable of figuring out their own best interests. You want to help? Advocate for more information, so that the fly-by-night companies and the author mills are exposed. Now that would be useful.


Fae Sutherland

in June 19th, 2009 @ 06:27

“But if many are already eligible for PAN and many can enter the RITA, what are we talking about? That “legitimacy” again? That comped workshop space at conference?”

Qualifying for PAN has nothing to do with being eligible for the Rita’s. Shouldn’t the president of the organization know that epublished authors are specifically forced into limbo under the Rita and Golden Heart rules? We can’t enter the Golden Heart because we’re published, but because our books are digital and have no print runs or advances given, we’re not eligible for the Rita’s either.

So why doesn’t Ms. Pershing know that? Read your own rules, lady.


Anne Douglas

in June 19th, 2009 @ 06:27

I’m not an RWA member, but standing on the sidelines I have to ask:

Why such dedication to a system that is currently foundering? NYPublishers appear to be cutting back on acquisitions, laying off staff and editors, closing imprints, cutting back on advertising and print runs (all the while handing out multimillion dollar advances for biographies/autobiographies etc that will never earn out), and that doesn’t even touch the whole discount/returns system in place. Oh, and then there is the pesky don’t-earn-out-your-advance-never-sell-another-book/sell-for-a-good-advance issue…

Yet a system that potentially gives the midlist author higher returns in a more timely fashion is not legitimate? (I say potentially as not all ePublishers are equal, but then does that same sentiment not apply to NYPrint pub houses?)


J.C. Wilder

in June 19th, 2009 @ 06:30

@Sara Thacker – Just like clockwork, every June RWA does something to cause controversy right before the National conference. It’s sort of like Cracker Jack prizes – you just know its coming.


Arwen Lynch

in June 19th, 2009 @ 06:37

Nicely said, President Pershing. Nicely said.

If you were trying to alienate those of us who have tried to remain with RWA and make effective change from the inside, you’ve done a simply brilliant job here. Let me quote from a letter I never sent to you because I knew it would not make one whit of difference in your prejudice against e-publishing.

This was in response to your letter about RWA’s screwing e-book authors over the Rita’s.

Dear Dianne,

I just read your note to the membership about the RITA contest. After
reading it I went to the About RWA page where I read this line:

“The camaraderie and friendship members find within RWA are invaluable.”

Can you tell me why I should continue as a member of this
organization? I first joined in 2001 because of a recommendation by an agent who told me that RWA was the way to go if I wanted to be a
professional author. I found a local chapter. I joined an online
chapter. I found this camaraderie and friendship touted above.

Then I learned about the gap that exists within the Romance Writers of America.

If you are unpublished, you are nurtured and mentored and given
educational opportunities. If you are published, you are celebrated
and can mentor others and are given educational opportunities.

However, if you are published electronically, then you are the
red-headed stepchild of the organization. You are neither fish nor
fowl. I have books which might do well in the RITA’s, but I can not
enter due to the fact that they are e-pubbed and not mass-marketed. I
have manuscripts which have not been accepted by a publisher, but I
can not enter them in the Golden Heart because I am considered
published in that arena.

The very organization I have supported and that has supported me no
longer wants me? Because I am e-published, I am not a real author? Add to this that I have recently learned that there are authors who
entered the 2009 RITA’s in good faith only to learn that their books
didn’t fit all the criteria. The committee will not allow the books to
be judged and will NOT refund their money. I am so disappointed with
this decision. I also feel that not refunding the money is a legally
reprehensible act. The rules were changed after they entered.

I am currently judging another year of the GH entries. It will be my
very last year to do so. I’ve already made the decision not to attend
this year’s conference because of the continued mistreatment of
e-published authors. I will miss seeing my friends and learning from
them. However, I can not give more money to an organization that so
clearly does not want me as a member.

Dianne, RWA is becoming an “us” vs “them”. I voted for you because I
felt that you had made very clear that was a situation you wanted to
change. I feel cheated and betrayed.

Like so many others, I would discontinue my RWA membership if I didn’t have a local, and several online RWA chapters, that support and
encourage my writing career. If it weren’t for these supportive
groups, I would feel completely alone in my writing career. I believe
this is what the RWA was founded to prevent? Again, I refer you to
this line:

“The camaraderie and friendship members find within RWA are invaluable.”

I hope that when my membership is up for renewal next fall I can still
believe this statement. My hopes are dim right now.

Sincerely
Stephanie Lynch w/a Marilu Mann
RWA Member #48886

So in short, it is not the economy keeping me away from the RWA National conference in DC this year. It’s the discrimination.


N. Austin

in June 19th, 2009 @ 06:41

A bigoted diatribe by an industry dinosaur. Someone who is not able to grasp and move an organization to accept and embrace new technologies and methodologies is a dinosaur.

This type of “leadership” is ruinous to an organization. Just ask GM.


J.C. Wilder

in June 19th, 2009 @ 06:42

Sorry to repost this but my post lost the quotes I’d clipped and the original looks like a bizarre steam of unconciousness…

(RWA has adapted to the rise of digital publishing)
I disagree, Diane. RWA has made some concessions after drawn-out contentious discussions with its membership. The board has consistently dug in its heels where epublishing is concerned. I pay the same amount of dues that every other published author pays and I should be afforded the same rights. Why can’t RWA learn to separate the author from the method of delivery? I know several Five Star authors who only received 1k total payment for their novels yet they can still enter the RITA. Many epublished authors make more than 1k on a single title but because my books but because my publisher is an ebook first pub rather than paper or hardback – I can’t play in the reindeer games?

RWA should not be vetting publishers to begin with. Maybe a better approach is to create a database or clearing house of info about publishers rather than trying to hold publishers to an arbitrary set of standards.

(Up until a few years ago, print publishing was pretty much the only game in town.)
ePublishing has been around since 1996 – that’s more than just a few years. I realize this is a small point but it’s been around long enough to prove its here to stay.

(That study also indicates that e-book sales increased by 68.4%. There is no doubt that the growth is impressive. However, the study also shows that, even though the segment is growing rapidly, it still represents less than 2% ($113 million) of total book sales, in all categories)
It’s this kind of outlook that constantly puts RWA behind the pack in terms of writer’s organizations. While traditional print publishing remains stagnant (with a growth rate of less than 3% for all of last year) these statistics should be a wakeup call to both the Board and the membership that as an organization, we need to work to get ahead or stay on par with emerging technologies. I’ve been a member of RWA for 15 years and this organization is constantly playing catch-up rather than being proactive to stay abreast of the rapidly changing face of publishing.

(Calling RWA out of step with the times because it does not think the “no advance/high royalty rate” business model is fair to all its authors is a rather narrow way to define the organization)
As is defining epublishing by advance amounts. I don’t think RWA understands the epub business model enough to make informed decisions about the industry. I constantly see misinformation being touted as ‘fact’ and honestly it makes my eyes go crossed. If I can do research on a publisher RWA and its authors can as well. Anyone who chooses a publisher based on RWA’s stamp of approval is a fool.

Using RWA’s scenario, let’s look at a possible outcome for an author with NY and with a larger, more established epublisher and the total payout for one novella is 3k.

Author A – with an advance of 1k – they sign the contract on January 1 so they receive 1/3 (333.33) in January. They turn in the book in June 15 and receive the next 1/3 (333.33). The book is published on December 31 and they receive the final 1/3 (333.34). Now, thanks to reserves against returns, it’s not unusual to have further royalties held for 18 month or longer. So I’m not out of line in saying Author A has made about 1k in the first 2 years since signing the contract.

Author B goes with an epublisher and with the same scenario minus the advance – sign the contract on January 1, turn in the book in June 15 and the book is published on December 31. Unlike NY, most ePubs pay monthly so when your Author B’s book comes out in December and they receive their first payment in February and that first payment might be 1000. (remember, total earn out of 3k for both authors) Then March comes around and guess what, check two arrives (usually about 70-80% the size of the first one) so its about 750. Then comes April and another check arrives for 500. Then May its 300…and on and on.

Author B has made the bulk of their 3k in the 12 months after publication while Author A is still waiting for their first royalty check hoping they’ve made more than 1k to cover the advance. The kicker to this is Author B hasn’t factored in the eventual release of the paperback version – usually within a year of ebook release – and for many pubs, the author is paid every either quarterly or bi-annually for paperback royalties.

Does this make any sense to you? The first author may get her 1k a month or two faster but Author B will make more money in a shorter period of time.

I take my career very seriously and I’ve worked hard to educate myself and to accomplish all of the same goals as any traditionally pubbed author and I pay the same $ in dues to RWA. Why should the trad pubbed author be treated any differently than I am when our goals are the same?


Shayla Kersten

in June 19th, 2009 @ 06:44

When I heard RWA would post a response, I had hoped for a real dialogue. I should have realized it wasn’t possible. Ms. Pershing, all you’ve done is spew more of the same bull. Since you appear to respond only to Ms. Knight’s post, I guess you didn’t bother to read any of the comments. Too bad.

I don’t know why I bother to address Ms. Pershing at all. She probably won’t read the comments to her own post. Our opinion obviously doesn’t matter since it does not follow the party line.

Like others, I’m caught in a catch-22. I would drop my membership with National in a heartbeat because to the leadership, I am a foolish writer who has chosen the wrong route to publication. However, my local means too much to me. Can’t have one without the other. I guess that’s the only way National will keep their membership while they hide their head in the sand.


Eva

in June 19th, 2009 @ 06:54

I’m so upset I can’t even form a coherent response. But I wanted to say that at the least so that Ms. Pershing didn’t think the lack of comments were a sign of agreement.


Anon

in June 19th, 2009 @ 07:02

None of the commenters so far seem to have gotten Diane’s point. Yes, there are a couple of e-publishers who do a good job and make money for at least some of their authors. But how does RWA protect its members from those who don’t (and believe me, there are far more of the bad guys than the good guys out there)? If not by setting some minimum standards, then how? Ideas, please, instead of just more complaints.

And btw, there are workshops at every conference by unpublished members, so the idea that someone epubbed wouldn’t be allowed to put on a workshop, or that the presence of an epubbed author would someone make it less likely that the workshop would be accepted is just plain BS. If I didn’t know better, I’d think you all were just looking for excuses to find fault with RWA and justify your own position. Oh, that’s right. I don’t know better.


Gemma Halliday

in June 19th, 2009 @ 07:06

Thank you Diane for coming to respond! This has been a very illuminating week.

“Does she represent any authors who are remaining in the digital format and not moving over to print?”

I think this sentence right here illustrates what the underlying problem is. This insinuates that epublishing is less than or a stepping stone to print publishing. For many authors, this is not so. It’s a different career choice, sometimes a more lucrative one! With the economy being what it is, there are several real financial reason to go the epublishing route – quicker release dates, monthly royalty payments, primarily digital (and, thus, less expensive) promotion plans, etc. I absolutely respect Ms. Pershing’s 19 years of experience with RWA, but the needs of the organization 19 years ago are very different that the needs of the organization now. I think the mindset of RWA as a whole need to change so epublishing is viewed not as a means to an end of print publishing, but as a viable, long-term career path.

Just the opinion of one RWA PAN member whow is not leavingthe organization, and has been primarily print published by a traditional NY print publisher.


Arwen Lynch

in June 19th, 2009 @ 07:08

I am clueless as to why someone doesn’t feel they can post their name here. Are you just a sock puppet of the RWA Board or do you have the chutzpah to sign your name? Sorry, but nonymous comments hold utterly no water with me.

You so seem to have some inside knowledge of who is putting on workshops and such though. Makes one wonder, doesn’t it.

Come out, come out whoever you are.


Shiloh Walker

in June 19th, 2009 @ 07:10

Anon asked:

…” But how does RWA protect its members from those who don’t (and believe me, there are far more of the bad guys than the good guys out there)? If not by setting some minimum standards, then how? Ideas, please, instead of just more complaints….”

By educating members. Just turning a blind eye to those that don’t meet the $1k advance is NOT educating them. It’s pulling an ostrich thing and sticking RWA’s head in the sand.

Without any input on which are reliable and reputable epubs, you’ve got members subbing to epubs I wouldn’t touch with a ten-foot pole.

We need to educate members on the good ones, but RWA won’t ‘acknowledge’ the good ones unless the ‘good’ ones change to suit RWA’s liking.


Terri Schaefer

in June 19th, 2009 @ 07:11

@Anon

It’s not a matter of sour grapes, as you imply. For me, it’s the concept of ignoring a growing, vocal portion of your membership over the course of at least five-seven years, and hoping that if you shuffle things around from year to year, then they’ll just go away.

I’ve watched this “digital publishing is a phase” attitude for all my time in RWA, and now it’s reached critical mass for me, because digital publishing, whether as a stand-alone (e-pubs) or subsidiary (Harlequin and pretty much everyone else nowadays), is certainly not a phase.


Shayla Kersten

in June 19th, 2009 @ 07:12

@Anon

First, I find it interesting that someone coming to Ms. Pershing’s defense needs to post anonymously.

However, you evidently don’t understand the issue. What the majority of the complaints are about is RWA’s failure to do anything positive about epublishing–including education, researh, etc. All they do is accuse authors who have chosen epublication of being non-career focused. And Ms. Pershing did nothing here but rewrite the same inane drivel she’s put out in RWR.


jim duncan

in June 19th, 2009 @ 07:15

I understand RWA’s pov on this, not that I think it legitmizes their stand on epubs. You’re playing with fire alienating a chunk of the membership. You’re saying the no advance/higher royalty rate is disadvantageous to members. That this business model does not deserve legitmacy because it often underpays authors. Ok, in a lot of cases this is probably true. When you have major houses in publishing beginning to play around with this model due to trouble in the industry, you start to run into problems.

The problem could more be due to some pubs flooding their shelves with too many titles to allow for individually adequate sales. Bad business? Maybe not, but yes, probably not so good for authors. On the other hand, you have some authors who make more money with epub titles than some authors who have been traditionally published and not done well. There are other advantages to epubs, one of which is quick payout. A lot of authors in epubbing don’t make $1000 off a book. So, they are shut out due to poor business practices on the publishers part. They wouldn’t have been published in the first place if it wasn’t for this, however.

A lot of authors get their work out there to be noticed due to this poor business model. They belong to RWA, but do not get publishing recognition for it they deserve. You can’t get noticed without getting published. Many don’t get very far because of a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with being put on an e-shelf with a hundred other authors and fading into obscurity. Authors have to be involved in a lot of things to get noticed and generate sales. It takes a lot of work beyond the writing. Even with a lot of work, sales may not happen. This goes with traditional pubs as well. This policy only functions to penalize these authors.

I understand the 1000 policy is an effort to stand by the rights of authors to be adquately and deservedly compensated. A lot of people would not get the chance of success however if epubs had to abide by this. And RWA is about developing careers. Epubbing is an opportunity, and for some a very good one. You need to be working on methods to help these authors make the most of the opportunities given to them and not penalizing them because they make the choice to work within a different business model. Digital publishing works because of its business structure. It gives a lot of authors a chance who would have had none. You can’t penalize them for this or make them feel like RWA views them as less legitimate because you want or think digital publishing should work on a different business model. Digital publishing will likely never adopt an advance model (not as a whole anyway). It’s not viable. I believe you really need to accept this fact and work and figuring something else out and let members know you are working on this. Be transparent, be loud in voicing this fact. Because this issue is causing problems.


Leslie Dicken

in June 19th, 2009 @ 07:20

What I don’t understand is why things are okay one year and then not okay the next? The standards keep changing — and not in a positive way. What will be excluded next year?

Already I’ve been told that I am not permitted to sign at the literacy signing because my publisher (who is small but not epub) is not on their list of non-vanity/non-subsidy. They meet the criteria…they just didn’t bother to send in the paperwork. And so ALTHOUGH the books are donated and the proceeds are for charity, RWA will not give me a spot at the table or list me on their website as signing.

Yeah, good will to all. NOT.


C Parker

in June 19th, 2009 @ 07:21

You say a few threaten to quit RWA, but don’t. Could they be like me? I don’t leave because I love my local chapter, not because of RWA. You don’t represent me. You don’t support me. I can’t enter one contest because I’m published, but I can’t enter the other because I’m not published by the big NY guys. So basically you’ve turned your back on me except when it’s time to collect dues.

So what am I getting for my $85? A magazine?


Elizabeth Burton

in June 19th, 2009 @ 07:21

First, the average income for writers in the US has been and will likely continue to be less than $10,000/yr. For someone alleged to be an expert on the subject to make it sound as if aspiring novelists should expect to be able to make a living with their writing is misleading in the extreme.

Second, to state that the decision to not include a panel on digital publishing was in part based on low attendance at a previous one is disingenuous when the speaker at that panel would have been of little to no interest to the people attending an RWA convention. I’m sure Mr. Smith is an excellent speaker, but the technicalities of ebook production aren’t what most people would be there to hear about.

Third, how anyone can think the circular argument as to why Samhain’s suggestion for a panel topic was rejected is acceptable escapes me. I can assure Ms. Pershing that most of us are sufficiently well-read to know a Catch-22 when we see it.

It’s unfortunate that the quality of the national RWA doesn’t match that of its local chapters, albeit fortunate for them. It’s well-known that the only reason writers haven’t left RWA in droves over this elitist stance is that they have to join to be a member of their local.

For an organization that purports to be working to ensure the safety of its members to establish recognition criteria that is irrelevant to the realities of the industry and punishes those very members for exercising their right to choose how and by whom they will be published is overstepping the bounds.

No one argues there are ample scam artists offering to relieve eager writers of their money. Honest, hardworking publishers do not deserve to be punished because one or two companies were able to play the RWA criteria to achieve recognition and promptly tanked because they were overextended financially. It will never be known how big a part their efforts for recognition contributed to their demise.

I’ll conclude with bumpersticker wisdom. As new technologies emerge, the successful publisher will be the ones who are able to utilize them. Organizations claiming to help writers who ignore the inevitable changes those technologies will produce need to lead, follow or get out of the way.


T. Lamont

in June 19th, 2009 @ 07:29

The use of the term “author mill” caught my eye. How are e-pubs different from the structure at NY publishing houses? A few lead authors with debuts and mid-lists ambitiously climbing the ladder rung by rung, often working hard and out of their own pockets for their own “author” branding and promo–I don’t see a difference. But “branding” e-publishers with a term that calls to mind something like a “puppy mill” makes the tone and attitude of this board quite clear.

Having drawn so much inspiration from RWA and volunteered my time on several boards, contests and events (and made wonderful , supportive friends in the process), their uncompromising position here is just sad.

Why not create an alternate category of professional accomplishment to support members who choose e-pubs happily and willingly?


Linda Mooney

in June 19th, 2009 @ 07:31

At this moment, my agent cannot find a “major” (print/NY) publisher for my books. She has 4 of them, all novels, all along the genres I write. But they’re not selling. Why? Because epublishing and the digital age has done major damage to the traditional houses. The tide came in long ago, and now it’s on its way back to the sea. Traditional publishers are cutting staff, freezing salaries, cutting authors, and deleting contracts already bought and paid for.

I am very happy with my epubs. I have 10 best sellers, 8 of them consecutively. But according to RWA standards…

Oh, well. *sigh* ‘Nuff said.


Nan O'Berry

in June 19th, 2009 @ 07:40

Well, I guess it says it all. I’m nothing. Boy, howdy how they must have laughed when I did my first sales. Yes, there are a few epubs who are recognized by RWA that aren’t Samhain. We’re the ones that push and push to get our work out, read the magazine RWR f rom cover to cover then go back and attack our manuscripts to see if we’ve done everything they’ve asked. Well, not to worry. I won’t do RITA or GOLDEN HEART. I would never think of doing any contest because from the looks of things unless you’re “KNOWN” you are about to be taken seriously. I now know how it feels to have your rose colored glasses ripped off. Thank Ms. Pershing for opening my eyes. No, I wont’ go to RWA Nationals even though they are with in reach. I might soil the carpet if I walked upon it. God, what a fool I was to think that claiming first sales made me a bit more of a real writer working for that goal of print runs.
I’m so tired of clawing my way through the maze of do this do that. Right now being an RWA member sucks.


Seeley deBorn

in June 19th, 2009 @ 07:48

I’d like to point out that RWA is not, by typical standards, a “professional organization”. It is a club, with membership dues, and rules and guidelines, and a governing board, but it is not selective in its membership (only in the members to whom it chooses to listen).

Professional organizations, such as those self-governing bodies that oversee engineers, doctors, nurses, and other professionals have education and experience requirements. They also offer benefits beyond conferences and yahoo loops; things like medical and dental benefits, and legal assistance.

If the RWA doesn’t want to address the concerns of members who feel that the club isn’t considering or representing their interests perhaps they should consider revising their membership requirements from “anyone willing to pay them.”


Lisa Pietsch

in June 19th, 2009 @ 07:51

I’m with Melissa Schroeder and others. I’m doing just fine with an e-pub and I really don’t feel the need to pay dues to your Good Old Girls’ Club just to say I’m a member when you consider epubbed authors posers. Go find some other sucker.

I’m beginning to think that publishing is more like politics than it should be – we need to wait for all the Good Old Boys to die or retire before we get with the times and see some productive changes.


Nina Pierce

in June 19th, 2009 @ 07:53

I am very serious about my writing career. This is why I CHOSE to go with an epublisher. A place where I earn monthly (or quarterly) royalties rather than a smaller press which would have paid a $1000 advance, made me eligible for both PAN and the RITAs, but would not have supported my family. There are many “RWA recognized” publishers whose print books do not earn out the advance and leave the author without further income. Any business person looking at building a career can see which publisher makes the most sense.

For RWA to intimate that I don’t have serious career goals because I chose a certain path is insulting.


Melissa Francis

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:05

Ms. Pershing,
I wish I felt like your response was more about RWA’s official stance on epublishing industry instead of a defensive breakdown of Deidre’s letter to the Board.

I’m published by HarperTeen. I never really considered epublishing to be a goal in my personal career path however, I feel like it is a legitimate and career focused goal. It bothers me that you feel otherwise.

I’m also tremendously bothered by this statement:

” E-published authors are only one segment of RWA’s 10,000-member population. What of the huge majority that constitutes the rest of the membership?”

are you saying the huge majority of the RWA membership are print published in NY? It’s my understanding that the huge majority of RWA is unpublished. So why wouldn’t RWA want to educate the unpublished majority in all forms of publishing. EDUCATION is key to preventing members from being taken advantage of. RWA has taken great pains to educate the masses on how to find an agent, warning signs of bad agents, etc. Why wouldn’t they offer the same benefit to the HUGE MAJORITY about e-publishing?

“No organization can make everyone happy, but RWA goes on, no matter what.”

This is a personal pet peeve of mine. I have a problem with the fall back excuse of ‘not making everyone happy” as a legitimate reason to avoid change or look for other ways to better the organization. It’s not about making everyone happy, it’s about doing what’s best for the HUGE MAJORITY in regards to industry growth. Right now, industry growth is showing e-pub is here to stay. So embrace it and educate your members so they will be armed and protected.


Arianna Skye

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:14

Wow! If it weren’t for my local chapter and the online chapters, I’d run away as fast as I can. Matter of fact, one of my local chapters dissolved from your organization for this particular reason. You say you are trying to protect the interests of ALL your members, but what you fail to realize is that we small and epubbed authors are part of that ALL. The fact that you can come on here post your scathing responses to Deidre’s excellent blog and just run away, shows me all I need to know.

I wonder how many of your 10K members are published by small press and e-publishers. Quite a few, I gather. Maybe all of us e-pubbed authors should drop our memberships and see how many are left.

I just signed on with a small e-publisher. They are very friendly and do lots to promote their authors. I realise there are a few flighty pubs out there, but most are good and take great care with their authors.

Thank you for letting me see the light. THe light being that I should not renew my membership next year.


Grace Draven

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:15

Well, after reading this, I’ve come to the conclusion (not surprised either) that what RWA is all about is holding out its hand for the same amount of money from every member and justifying that expense for only some.

Nothing in this article changed my view that RWA is outdated and useless. As Ms. Pershing was very quick to point out, lots of naysayers leave or threaten to leave and RWA goes on. I’ll take that as a translation “We don’t give a shit what you think. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass going out.”

Every point in her argument can be countered with contradictory facts pulled from various sources, especially those regarding how RWA supported authors will be rolling in the dough. For God’s sake, it’s one thing to rip off a portion of your membership after you get their money. It’s something else and much worse IMO to mislead them into thinking they’ll be wealthy, especially with RWA’s backing. Please.

I can’t express how very glad I am that I chose not to re-up my membership. I only regret they got money from me in the first place.


Anon

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:17

<>

Wonder away, but my so-called “inside knowledge” comes from actually attending workshops by unpubbed people, experts not in RWA (like historical reenactors), even e-pubbed people at approx a dozen RWA National conferences. So I know that the idea of a workshop being turned down simply because one of the presenters is an e-pubbed author is just bull. (Note, I said e-pubbed author, as opposed to unrecognized e-publisher, whose very presence in an RWA venue would imply the organizations endorsement)

There’s all this energy being expended over how “unfair” things are because there are no workshops on e-publishing. Let’s ignore the fact that the majority of the membership of RWA would be more interested in a broader Digital Rights workshop than one specifically on e-publishing.

The fact is, NONE of you complaining here offered to put on a workshop on either topic. There’s a ton of energy going into a “Rogue Digital Workshop” with multiple presenters, presumably some sort of room rented, etc. But if the issue is so important, why the hell didn’t all those people propose THAT workshop/panel to RWA at the outset, instead of just reacting when *one* of the presenters (Angela James) was rejected for the reason explained by Diane Pershing?

If it’s so important, where were all of you during last year’s workshop by an e-publishing industry expert?

If it’s so important, where were all of you during workshop submission time? Who is supposed to do all this education if you don’t do it?

Again, I ask for someone to offer real solutions to the real issues. What does RWA do about protecting members from fly-by-night publishers? There are hundreds of them out there, ready to rip off members –who are currently ripping off members. How does the organization weed out the good ones from the bad, especially if the even good ones are not willing, now that they’ve “made millions,” to absorb some of the risk of the business by giving authors advances against what the publisher expects to earn?

And why, if you all are making so damned much money, have so very few of you offered your info to Brenda Hiatt for her (anonymous) Show Me the Money compilation? Sorry folks, but as long as the average earn-outs for e-publishers show up as $50 or$100, you’re going to get very little respect from anyone. This is a business, and money is the scorecard. You want respect, show us your hand.

Pony up. That’s all I’m saying. Don’t just sit and bitch. Pony up, all across the board.


Gwen Hayes

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:19

I am one of the epubbed authors that made very little money on my releases. The kind Ms. Pershing is so concerned about.

I don’t blame my publisher.

I recognize that I need to do more promotion than I currently do, and that certain genres do better in epublishing than others. But I thank God for my experiences in epublishing (even if it has kept me out of both the Golden Heart and Rita contests). Small presses have given me the opportunity to learn by experience how to be a better writer, how to promote, and how to revise and edit my work. As a new author, the experience has been invaluable. . If I were to continue to write romance, I would stay with my small press because I believe that, in time, I would be able to make more money there. Certainly more than a 1k advance that comes at me in three payments over a couple years.

And before anyone goes on to call me a “hobbyist” because I’m not meeting some IRS requirement that seems to fuel some of the logic behind the advance issue–let us not forget the unpubbed authors who have been working on the same book for five years with no end in sight. They are free to enter the GH every year and are given plenty of workshops, handholding, and RWA resources. How am I less serious about my writing than that author? Because I chose to finish a story and submit it to a small press?


Kate Davies

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:19

Many others have already said what I would say, and far more eloquently, so I’m going to focus on just one aspect of Ms. Pershing’s remarks.

” The first point of view is that of an author whose publisher is unhappy, an author who thinks RWA is preventing her from entering the RITA contest. RWA is doing no such thing. Of 1,112 entries in this year’s RITA contest, 64 entries were published by small (non-NY) publishers. 34 of the entries were from publishers whose primary format is print. The remaining 30 entries were from publishers whose format is primarily electronic, Deidre’s publisher being one of these.”

And many of those entries, from my understanding, were disqualified because of the new mass distribution requirement slipped into the rules this year. It’s rather disingenuous to quote low entry numbers for books that didn’t meet contest requirements in the first place.


Melissa Schroeder

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:21

Sorry to post again, but I would like to address the class I taught last year. Angela, Shelley and I had an open discussion on epublishing. It was better attended than one of the better selling category authors’ classes I attended a few years prior. We had a hoarde of authors wanting to speak with Angela after it. She could barely get out the door and let the other people set up.
Part of the problem is education. If RWA had really done research several years ago, authors in NY would not be earning less than 10% on some of their digital sales. I earn no less than 37.5%, most of mine are over 40. Because of their ignorance on the subject, many authors signed contracts that have set the bar low for digital rights.
RWA is supposed to be an educational platform for authors, but in this one BIG area, the Kindle is not a passing fad, you have failed and continue to do so. The one reason I did the class last year was because the person in charge of classes said one of the highest requested classes was something on digital publishing. You don’t have to submit, heck you don’t even have to like epublishing, but dismissing it in the manner you have, and boards in the past, you have been a disservice to EVERY member who has signed a contract that deals with digital rights.


Melissa Francis

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:25

@anon

“If it’s so important, where were all of you during last year’s workshop by an e-publishing industry expert?”

According to Ms. Pershing, it was offered during a PRO retreat only. Must be PRO to attend–which would exclude PAN members or aspiring authors. Also PRO retreat is generally offered at same time as PAN retreat, so even if PAN could attend, there would be a conflict. And oftentimes, the PAN/PRO retreats are low attendance due to the fact that agent meetings take place at the same time.

Might have been a different turn out if that had be presented as a ‘regular’ workshop.

“If it’s so important, where were all of you during workshop submission time? Who is supposed to do all this education if you don’t do it?”

Seems to me you would want qualified presenters such as Angela James offering that education and not someone like me who would like to be educated but has nowhere to find it.

Thank God for twitter. I’ve learned more about epubbing in the last few months from Jane (Dear Author), Angie (Samhain) and SB Sarah than I have in years with RWA.


Lisa

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:25

Anon said:

But how does RWA protect its members from those who don’t (and believe me, there are far more of the bad guys than the good guys out there)? If not by setting some minimum standards, then how? Ideas, please, instead of just more complaints.

There should be standards, but it does not seem that the $1K advance criteria is an appropriate one for the epublishing business model. The first criteria should be Yog’s Law: that money flows to the author not the other way around. Vanity/subsidy publishers violate this law. More than that, I’ve easily seen up to five different suggestions on how to possibly evaluate the viability and dependability of an epublisher. RWA should be considering these.


Liz Pelletier

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:27

I agree with Ms. Pershing that RWA has a responsibility to speak for “authors who have slaved away for years on their books and then sold them to digital publishers and who get nearly no recognition, sales or financial return.” I don’t think anyone can argue that oversight, or a “yardstick”, should be used to look out for epub authors’ intererests. However, I think the real problem is this ruler needs to be switched to the metrics system when measuring an e-publisher’s legitimacy.

Instead of requiring epubs pay their authors $1000 royalties, which does not work with epub’s SUCCESSFUL business model, why not require epubs to validate they have more than a certain percentage (like 80%) of their authors’ royalties exceed $1000. If most of Samhain’s authors are earning greater than $1000 then they’re getting “paid for their work”. By validating the publisher, that “legitimacy” would then naturally be passed along to it’s authors.

If Samhain has a 100 authors and 80% are earning in excess of $1,000 in royalties… shouldn’t that be enough for RWA to recognize them as an “eligible publisher” and not an “author mill”?

I’m sure the next argument would be that there needs to be one “ruler” for both print and electronic publishers, but I would counter with “why”? To use an analogy, I often think of e-books as movies that are released straight-to-video. Anyone can shoot a movie but only a movie that has distributorship with a reputable company capable of delivering said movie to my blockbuster shelves is a “legitimate” movie in the same way that a movie with the distributorship to release a different movie for theatrical release is inherently legitimate. Two different distribution channels, two different criteria for evaluating the credibility of the product.

Of course, RWA’s responsibility is to the author, so to continue the analagy, regardless of distribution method SAG cannot guarantee that all of the actors are paid for their work in the same way that RWA shouldn’t make a similar assertion. Heck, an actor might have agreed for a greater percentage on the backend than payment up front (as is the case with e-books), and the movie never make any money and thus the actor did not get paid. But the SAG board can comfortably grant the actor in a movie handled by one these “eligible” companies full rights of membership because he “probably” got paid. We’re talking probabilities, not possibilities, which is a statistically measurable value.

And that’s all I’m really suggesting. RWA should catch up with the times and toss away their antiquated “yardstick” in favor of a metric-equivalent tool for measuring a dgital publishing company’s “eligibility” and thus an author’s financial welfare.


Shiloh Walker

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:27

Anon who suggested pony up:

it gets rather tedious trying to do so after so many slaps down-as yes, many of us lowly epubbed feel slapped down. Your comment came off as one.

Many of us epubbed authors have offered info to Brenda Hiatt. I did, I believe two years running. I haven’t recently because frankly, it hasn’t occurred to me and I’ve got better things to do with my time then jot down notes about how much money I make.


Marcia Colette

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:29

I agree 100% with Ember, Shiloh Walker, JC Wilder, and what others have said. However, I’d still like to add my $0.02, too.

Just because you’ve allowed ESPAN and the Rainbow Chapter to become affliliated with RWA, doesn’t mean you’re here to serve everyone with open arms. Either you serve/support them 100% or you don’t serve them at all. How’s that for fairness?

You’re treating e-publishing like it’s a redheaded stepchild, smacking it down with the hopes that eventually it’ll go away. Well, it won’t. It’s the 21st century and here to stay. Some NY publishing houses are older than RWA, and even they’ve decided to step into the digital age. If you don’t believe me, then why have they decided to release e-books? Why are they adding e-book clauses in their contracts?

Months ago, I had left RWA for personal reasons, but also, for attitudes like this. The only reason why I’ve recently decided to rejoin next month is because I miss my local chapter. They must have missed me, too, if they asked me to come back and be a guest panelists. At least I know there isn’t any discrimination there. If it weren’t for that rule about being a member on the National level to belong to a local chapter, I’d donate my $85 fee to my local chapter where I’m sure they could make better use of it than the RWA BOD could. After reading this, I’m reminded of why I had left in the first place and beginning to rethink my renewal plans.

Do all of us a favor. STOP punishing all epubs for the faults of some. What Trisk (and others) have done to their authors has NOTHING to do with how other epubs treat theirs. Better yet, you shouldn’t be vetting publishers in the first place. Put up the contact information and leave it at that. None of this Eligible or Non-subsidy/Non-vanity press crap. That’s like turning a professional organization into a candy shop by saying, “I like this one and this one, but I don’t care very much for that one.” Give us the information and let us decide. Enlist the help of publishers like Elloras Cave, Samhain, and LooseID to help educate authors about e-pubs. Don’t make decisions for us because you think we’re incapable of making them on our own. That’s not protecting. That’s insulting.


Jennifer North

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:30

Writing is a creative and enriching endeavor. And because RWA and its board is made up of writers I can’t believe this is the response to the concerns expressed by Ms. Knight.

Where’s the creativity in challenging major e-pubs to ditch their successful publishing models for one that is currently floundering in New York? Is this really something that you think would happen? Why throw down gauntlets that you know will not be picked up? Why try to shove a square peg into a round one? The creative thing to do would be to help carve a new niche and work to educate authors on how to navigate it…

And where’s the enrichment offered to ALL RWA members in this kind of reactive response? Where are the suggestions for solving these dilemmas? Okay, so not every author makes “decent” money by epublishing…so what do you suggest members do to improve this situation? Where are the ideas? Where is the vision for a new future in which ALL members can strive for recognition and success?

Leadership isn’t about maintaining the status quo or prudently living up to a “fiduciary responsibility”. Leadership is about pushing for new paradigms that broaden horizons and enliven spirits.

Right now my horizon seems kinda dim and my spirit feels kinda squashed…


Alessia Brio

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:32

Yo, Anon! Yes, you. While you’re busy telling us lowly epubbed authors to put up or shut up, why don’t YOU stand behind YOUR words instead of hiding behind “Anon”? I find it very interesting that the only anonymous comments on this blog post are defensive to the point of belligerence. Oh, how professional!

As for the money, why does the income even MATTER? The author who makes $200 in first month sales is every bit as legitimate as the author who makes $2000 — as are their publishers. Take the Sylvester McMonkey McBean spiel elsewhere. This Sneetch (and, apparently, a whole beech full of Sneetches) ain’t buying it.


Lisa

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:32

I hope RWA learns from RIAA’s mistakes: Internet ©rapshoot: How Internet Gatekeepers Stifle Progress by Cory Doctorow.


azteclady

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:34

Disclaimer: not a writer, not an aspiring writer–just a reader watching the idiocy from the sidelines.

To anon: are RWA members imbeciles who need a paternalistic organization to protect them? or are they adults seeking factual, up-to-date information in the industry in order to make rational, logical, well-informed, wise career decisions for themselves?

If the first… well, there’s nothing to say, do carry on as is and good luck to you.

If the second, then RWA needs to get on with the program, doesn’t it? And since you need it spelled out: RWA should educate its members–all of them–on all the exisiting career choices, not just the ones some of the board members are familiar with.


PG Forte

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:35

As someone who’s practically made a career out of comparing actors and authors (well, it’s not really a career, of course, since there’s no money in it *g*) I really must address this: “A no-advance model, even a 50-50 model will always benefit those at the top. Brad Pitt can work for no upfront money and accept a nice piece of the net profits of his next film, but what about the actor in the same film with three lines? He’s still considered a pro, has his SAG card. Is he to work for no money? How will he live? After all the percentages have been counted, he has a really good chance of getting nothing at all.”

One would assume the ‘actor with three lines’ feels that he is advancing his career. That he is looking at the big picture (rather than just the bottom line) and understands that, in acting as in writing, we make our own breaks and nothing is guaranteed to us.

I think most of us agree that, when it comes to building a career, working is better than not working. Is it possible Ms. Pershing really cannot understand that money is not, and should not, be the only thing a professional–in any field–takes into account when making a career decision?

Perhaps some of us choose to ‘gamble’–with a different business model, a smaller publisher, a new genre–because we recognize that NOT gambling gets us nowhere. Perhaps some of us would prefer to be working writers, steadily accumulating royalties, readers, recognition (not to mention a really nice backlist) even if it means foregoing the upfront money, rather than deluding ourselves with the fiction that it’s somehow more professional and career-oriented NOT to be published, not to make ANY money from our writing, and to take those books into which, yes, a lot of time, work and effort have been invested and do nothing with them.

One last thought. Did Ms Pershing really mean to compare RWA and SAG? Because, somehow, I doubt SAG would ever seek to ban one of their actors from being nominated for an Oscar simply because the production in question was an independent film.


Lauren Dane

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:36

Hey anonymous, this is Lauren Dane – I’ve BEEN ponying up. I’ve been doing blog entries about the business, providing information about how the different models work to give people some more tools to make choices best for them and I don’t even do it anonymously.

I do it because the RWA is NOT doing it. I do it because I AM career focused and unlike the President of the RWA, I do care about members who are trying to figure out what path is right for them.

Epublishing is not right for every author. Not every digital publisher is one authors should write for. There are crappy publishers out there who pay late, mismanage money and put out horrible product. Ignoring this will not make it go away. Ignoring this will not protect newbie authors from getting involve because they don’t know how to make better choices.

I don’t really care about “unfair” I’m not in third grade anymore. What I care about is my career. What I care about is how well ignorance breeds contempt and lack of information will NOT help newbie writers, it won’t help anyone.

I don’t need you or Diane Pershing to hide the facts for my own good. I have a mother and a working brain. You can’t protect people by keeping them ignorant. We are grown women. Give people the tools, let the information be given and let us make our own choices.


Gwen Hayes

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:39

Best comment ever:
“One last thought. Did Ms Pershing really mean to compare RWA and SAG? Because, somehow, I doubt SAG would ever seek to ban one of their actors from being nominated for an Oscar simply because the production in question was an independent film.” ~ PG Forte


Shelli Stevens

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:44

I just don’t know what to say anymore. My fellow authors have responded beautifully. I’m running on less than 5 hours sleep and spent all night in the ER with a suction cup spitting saline on my eyeball. Maybe later, when I have energy, I’ll reply properly. But for now…sorry. Just can’t do it. Except to say: not exactly the reply I was hoping for.


Caitlin Greene

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:46

Anon Said

“The fact is, NONE of you complaining here offered to put on a workshop on either topic. There’s a ton of energy going into a “Rogue Digital Workshop” with multiple presenters, presumably some sort of room rented, etc. But if the issue is so important, why the hell didn’t all those people propose THAT workshop/panel to RWA at the outset, instead of just reacting when *one* of the presenters (Angela James) was rejected for the reason explained by Diane Pershing?”

actually many people have offered ideas for what they would like to see, many of which i agree with. I would love to see a workshop on e-publishing contracts and avoiding the pitfalls of a fly-by-night publisher, but where are they?

Samhain’s workshop was shot down and is going to be included in the rouge conference, and i applaud the willingness of these individuals to take on such an endeavor themselves

“If it’s so important, where were all of you during last year’s workshop by an e-publishing industry expert?

If it’s so important, where were all of you during workshop submission time? Who is supposed to do all this education if you don’t do it?”

well i hadn’t yet joined last year, nor would i have qualified for PRO as i don’t have a finished manuscript but as many people have said, there were conflicts and reasons to not go to such a conference, and the members are clearly asking for another conference of the same caliber right now, so why not accommodate them?

and as to who is supposed to “do” the education, gee i don’t know, perhaps the people who get paid dues to put together conferences and arrange for educational opportunities??


Dayna/Rowan

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:50

“Again, I ask for someone to offer real solutions to the real issues. What does RWA do about protecting members from fly-by-night publishers? ”

How about…

Instead of sticking to the $1000 advance BS…
RWA educates themselves and their members about epublishing?
How about they learn the red flags which indicate a company is likely not the best home for your book?
How about they cull relationships with people who have market savvy and know the epub markets, so they could point out that an erotic paranormal romance is likely to do well at PublisherA while a sweet romance will do well at PublisherB – regardless of whether PublisherA or B are e- or print?
How about the financial arguments Shayla Black has made in the comments area here? Yes, you might make more over a longer period in print pub. But the speed with which you can see your money e-publishing is certainly nice.

All I’ve ever heard anyone ask of RWA:
Instead of condemning epublishing as ‘not worthy’ (or “not recognized”) simply present it as the valid alternative it is, when it’s done properly. That INCLUDES telling authors about the bum steers, and teaching them how to avoid them.

The recurring issue I see is that the president of RWA seems willing to only accept one business model, thereby leaving the members of the organization to do all their homework themselves, usually finding out by trial and error.

How does THAT protect their members?


Brenna Lyons

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:50

“I would love to see a workshop on e-publishing contracts and avoiding the pitfalls of a fly-by-night publisher, but where are they?”

At EPICon. Heck, EPIC members even did one at RT 2008. If you go to EPIC’s site at http://www.epicauthors.com you will find the model contract and red flags. If you contact me, I’ll send you the class notes. No strings attached.

That is something indie press has in its corner. We work together and support each other.

Brenna


Kerry Allen

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:54

It’s obvious from the tone of Ms. Pershing’s post that unless 9,999 RWA members (the “huge majority”) object to RWA’s dismissive attitude toward epublishing (or erotic romance or internet piracy or any of the various other member interests that RWA refuses to address or does so inadequately), she’s not interested in the dissenting point of view.

I paid my dues like a good little romance writer for two years. In those two years, RWA provided me with no information Google couldn’t serve up faster, more thoroughly, and with less bias. This year, I decided an $85 magazine subscription—a magazine which, it must be noted, is happy to fill half its pages with advertising from these epublishers from which the members must be “protected”—really had no value to me and dropped my membership.

“I would drop my membership but…” makes no impression on the organization, which—as Ms. Pershing repeatedly iterated—is interested only in the flow of money. Meet your local chaptermates for brunch and crit (or whatever you do at those meetings) and quit paying RWA for the privilege of being talked down to and excluded from benefits you’ve not only paid for, but earned. When they don’t have enough dues coming in to pay the electric bill, maybe then they’ll open their minds to these newfangled ideas of what it means to be a “legitimate” author.


Leslie Dicken

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:54

The fact is, NONE of you complaining here offered to put on a workshop on either topic. There’s a ton of energy going into a “Rogue Digital Workshop” with multiple presenters, presumably some sort of room rented, etc. But if the issue is so important, why the hell didn’t all those people propose THAT workshop/panel to RWA at the outset, instead of just reacting when *one* of the presenters (Angela James) was rejected for the reason explained by Diane Pershing?

Ummm, maybe it’s the same workshop, but since RWA banned it from being presented, the creators had to take it “underground.” Which, honestly, is freaking ridiculous. Information and education should NEVER, EVER be banned.


Adrianna Dane

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:55

Where do I begin? What a sad, sad state of affairs for RWA. Ms. Pershing, certainly we appreciate that you took the time to post a rebuttal. Unfortunately, it has served to inform members and non-members alike, how little this national organization understands the current and future trends in publishing in this digital age. As such, it appears to be an organization that no longer is able, or willing, to serves the needs of its current membership adequately. Terribly sad.

Each year I have high hopes for change and enlightenment, and each year I am disappointed. How is it individual chapters can meet the needs of local members and yet National still clings to its antiquated blinders? It shall always prove to be a mystery to me.

I think I’ve reached the end of my patience–this year there will be no renewal–my membership fees are better spent in other supportive directions that are positively attuned to my career and future endeavors as a writer of romantic fiction, be that through electronic publishing or otherwise.


Jill James

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:57

I’m getting really tired of hearing about the 10,000 members of RWA and how we have to think of the needs of the many and not the few. How many do you have to be to be many in the eyes of RWA? I want a break down of published and unpublished, PRO, E-pubbed, small press pubbed, NY (big boys) published. Maybe e-pubs are many and they are being ignored. How will we know?


Tammi

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:57

Frankly I’m more than disappointed with the unwillingness to even look at e-pubs and where the industry is going. And the response from a President who says they are representing the members – well hello wake up – your members are speaking to you. It’s time to listen and it’s time for members to be heard – everyone that pays for their membership fee has the right to be represented equally. Fighting this is only proglonging the obvious. Each day that goes by we are closer and closer to becomming paperless and doing more and more thing electronically. Honestly an organization that refuses to move along with technology and where the industry is going is an organziation that will start to have more and more problems and will start to see members leave. It’s a sad sad thing when an organziation doesn’t listen to who is paying to keep the organization in business. Maybe the problem isn’t the organization itself but rather the narrow minded people who are representing the membership. This only makes me more determined to follow through on my plan. Changes need to be made and one day they will be.


Eva

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:58

Dear anon. Anon comments don’t carry much weight. So, if you want your comments to be considered, you need to put your name behind them.

“None of the commenters so far seem to have gotten Diane’s point. Yes, there are a couple of e-publishers who do a good job and make money for at least some of their authors. But how does RWA protect its members from those who don’t (and believe me, there are far more of the bad guys than the good guys out there)? If not by setting some minimum standards, then how? Ideas, please, instead of just more complaints.”

RWA cannot protect each and every one of it’s members-it can only minimize risk by EDUCATING it’s members. That class taught at the last convention was closed to the people that needed to hear it most. E-publishers take ms’s of ALL lengths, and many novella length authors cannot be PRO due to the 70k word limit. So right there RWA automatically marginalized and lost an opportunity to educate the vast majority of it’s members that could have used it most.

You get complaints because the board tends to be insulting and so makes the insulted authors defensive.

I’m going to take you at your word, betting you are an established board member (who would come to Ms Pershing’s defense) and answer you. You want ideas? Here are some.

Abolish PRO. There should be Published and Unpublished. (and I am a PRO liaison for two chapters) PRO excludes the writers who need its workshops most. Probably some authors wanted to separate themselves from the hobbyists and wanted PRO, I understand that. But PRO still serves no one but the writers who are actively seeking NY publication with longer works. Some career focused writers excel at shorter works and aim for e-publishers making an handsome earning off of it.

Personal choice of the writer for their own career should be the hallmark of RWA. Whether they seek traditional publishing or e. If they have received a check–in any amount–for their work they should be considered published (being RWA I would assume the writings being romance centered). Then you, as National, educate to the point of supersaturation ALL members on e-publishing in it’s every facet so they can make EDUCATED guesses-not shots in the dark. The RWA Board is viewed as disdaining e-publishers, and is perceived as trying to thwart their business model within RWA. CHANGE that perception by respecting e-authors. How? By taking away the advance limitations because they are archaic then EDUCATE your members and take away the zeitgeist of secrecy the PRO and PAN levels create.

If car wrecks like Triskelion happened to RWA members it was under the watch of RWA and the board members who refused to EDUCATE their members thinking their disapproval alone was enough. We’re Americans-we don’t take well to large organizations telling us what’s best for us-that is disrespectful. RWA’s stance so far has been that of an overprotective parent giving it’s teenager ultimatums with no logic behind it’s reasons-a recipe that is sure to prove disastrous. You cannot expect members to listen when they see the disrespect handed out with the advice. All RWA’s members goals and career choices need to be encouraged and respected, not just the few who choose to do it your way.

Frankly, I see Ms. Pershing’s letter as throwing more gasoline on the fire and I’m astounded that anyone expected a different response.


Lisa

in June 19th, 2009 @ 08:59

Anon said:

If it’s so important, where were all of you during last year’s workshop by an e-publishing industry expert?

I’m a PRO member and joined RWA in 2000. During that workshop I was pitching my book in an agent appointment. Go figure. Who was the genius that scheduled the PRO Retreat and the Editor/Agent Appointments simultaneously?

More importantly, things change in a year. Scheduling issues aside, what’s important to can change from year to year. A lot has happened in epublishing in the last 12 months, so it stands to reason that turnout might be different this year as opposed to last year.


Kelly S. Bishop

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:00

There is none so blind as those who will not see.

Sigh. Do you WANT RWA to become an irrelevant dinosaur?


PG Forte

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:00

@ Anon you said “believe me, there are far more of the bad guys than the good guys out there”

I’m so sorry, I didn’t realize we had an expert among us, someone so clearly literate and well-informed as to shame us all. My dear, of course we should all believe YOU.

And that would be WHO, exactly?


Kelly Jamieson

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:03

I am dumfounded. I truly cannot believe that the president of the RWA has just suggested that successful publishers (yes e-publishers, but why differentiate) change how they do business – change to a business model that is flawed and struggling. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Quoting Ms Pershing: “Deidre writes: <>What is meant by “legitimacy?””
Ms Pershing you answered your own question at the beginning of your post where you provided the RWA’s definition of elgible publisher: “(From RWA’s Policy and Procedure Manual, section 1.17. “Eligible Publisher” means a romance publisher that has verified to RWA in a form acceptable to RWA, that it: …..(3) provides advances of at least $1,000 for all books; and (4) pays all authors participating in an anthology an advance of at least $500).” Did you really not realize that’s what Deidre was saying?

You did not need to provide that definition. We all knew it. The problem is, we don’t agree with it.

Another quote: “Does she (Deidre Knight) represent any authors who are remaining in the digital format and not moving over to print?” Ms Pershing, I have to think that you know authors don’t need an agent to publish only in digital publishing, so I therefore have to think that your comment was deliberately insulting to Ms Knight by implying that she is a hypocrite. If you truly did not know that authors don’t need agents to publish digitally, then you were not being insulting, just sadly uninformed.

“I am curious as to why digitally published authors fight so hard for their publishers’ rights, but fight so little for their own.” This is what we are trying to do. While many of us will defend our publishers because we are happy working with them, that is not the point of this debate. We are trying to fight for our own rights to publish the way we choose and be recognized as published, career-focused authors.

“Deidre wants Ellora’s Cave and Samhain to be treated differently, their authors treated differently, because many may actually be earning money with this business model…She is arguing for an exception to be made for these two publishers, one of which happens to be hers.” Where in Deidre’s post did she say that? I can’t find it. I don’t believe she was asking for “an exception to the rules”. I believe she was asking for a CHANGE to the rules.


Brenna Lyons

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:05

“E-publishers take ms’s of ALL lengths, and many novella length authors cannot be PRO due to the 70k word limit. So right there RWA automatically marginalized and lost an opportunity to educate the vast majority of it’s members that could have used it most.”

Eva,

Am I reading this right? No one with a book below 70K can be considered for PRO? Back up… How do they take authors who only write for the shorter category lengths in NY into account? Blaze, for instance, currently asks for 55-60K. In addition to the e-pubbed authors, are these ladies and gents turned away? I doubt it, but I have to ask.


Cai Smith

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:06

Thank you, Ms. Pershing, for your response. Like so many others who have already responded, however, I have retained my RWA membership for one reason and one reason only…my online chapter.

Through that chapter, I have, indeed received the support, companionship, education, information, critiques, advice and information necessary to become a published author. It certainly wasn’t through anything I learned from the National organization…

I have to admit, in the last few years I have attended the National Conference strictly for the networking and for seeing old friends that I only see at Nationals. I am NOT attending this year because I chose to go to the RT Conference instead. A conference, I might add, at which I was invited and encouraged to sign at both the e-book and print-book fairs and where I sat next to a long-time RWA member and multi-published print author.

Yep, that’s right, my (gasp) erotica was right next to her military romantic suspense and no one batted an eye! We are both RWA members, but did anyone ask about that membership when they were purchasing our books? Did they ask which one of us had received $1000 advance or which one of us was “recognized” as a published author with RWA? No, because they really didn’t care. The readers were there to buy books, to see their favorite authors, to find new ones and because they love reading romance.

RWAs stance as laid out by you, Ms. Pershing, totally negates that reader’s opinion. They didn’t see me as any less pubilshed than the NY author I was sitting next to. All they saw was my book on the table right next to hers.

If the average reader of romance sees me as legitimately published, in spite of the fact that RWA as an organization doesn’t, who’s opinion do you think I value more?

Next year, I think I’ll keep my $85 – though it pains me to leave my online chapter where I’ve made many friends and gained valuable information. Best of luck with your inclusivity, Ms. Pershing.


Arianna Skye

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:07

Wow, Why is Anon anonymous? Is he/she/it embarrassed because she is the president’s sock puppet?

FYI: There are authors out there that make 5 to 6 figures in the e-publishing world, and they didn’t need the RWA’s help/lack of help to do it!!!

I’m to the point that I am confident enough in my writing ability and goals that I too do not need the RWA’s lack of help to pursue a successful writing career. I’m really torn because of my local and online chapters where I get my only RWA related support and solidarity.

I could say some other things, but I am going to refrain from it–because I am a professional, even though the RWA doesn’t seem to think so.

Cheers!
Arianna Skye


Eva

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:15

Brenna-GAH! 40k, it is 40 thousand words that makes a writer eligible for PRO. My bad. (in my defense I believe at one time it was 70k- because I remember not joining RWA and not meeting the PRO requirements and waiting- I saw no reason to. Ironic, no?)

PRO Requirements:

“This program is available to any general or honorary member who: (1) is not PAN-eligible, (2) has completed a work of romantic fiction of 40,000 or more words, excluding collections of short stories, novellas or poetry, and (3) has submitted this work to a literary agent or non-Subsidy/non-Vanity romance Publisher.

Acceptable proof of submission may consist of one of the following: (1) Electronic or printed correspondence (including “receipt” postcards) from any RWA-eligible Agent or non-Subsidy/non-Vanity Publisher acknowledging receipt and/or review of submitted work or query regarding work, (2) The signature page, or a copy of the contract signature page, for the sale of a romance manuscript which does not make the author PAN-eligible and which is not with a Subsidy Publisher or Vanity Publisher. If works are not published in the member’s name, proof of pseudonyms or corporate identity must also be provided, or (3) A proof of mailing (receipt) with addressee clearly marked.”


Leslie Dicken

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:19

If the average reader of romance sees me as legitimately published, in spite of the fact that RWA as an organization doesn’t, who’s opinion do you think I value more?

Ain’t that the truth. Bravo.


Rhonda Stapleton

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:19

I became a member of RWA in 2004, volunteering for my local chapter in various capacities, participating in several online chapters, and even attending my first RWA conference last year.

As time went on, I noticed more and more conflict in the national organization, especially regarding e-pubs. Actually, I had a novel electronically published in 2007, but I was not PAN-eligible, RITA-eligible, or GH-eligible (because I was in that weird middle-ground of being published enough to disqualify for GH, but not published enough to qualify for RITA. Go figure). Thankfully, my chapters were supportive and encouraging of my novel.

Still, I regarded PAN membership as the pinnacle of where I wanted to be in RWA. So I joined PRO and kept working at it.

I was fortunate enough in 2008 to get a three-book contract with a wonderful NY publisher for my young adult romance trilogy. Finally, I made it! I was PAN-eligible!

I sent in my app, joined the loops, and…it was bad.

Talk about crushing disappointment–there was almost nothing but bickering and arguing on the PAN loops amongst the members (and this isn’t even touching on the bickering on RWA’s main loops). I went from individual emails to a digest subscription, and then to special notice only.

Two months ago, I got fed up with it completely. I removed myself from the PAN loops, from all my chapters, and decided not to renew my RWA membership, which expires at the end of this month.

I, too, stayed in too long because of my local and online chapters. But you know what? There IS life outside of RWA. There is knowledge outside of RWA. And I get together with many of my RWA friends outside of the meetings–we meet, brainstorm, talk, laugh, and have a fantastic time.

So for me, I save $85 just on national fees…but even more, I save my sanity. Can’t put a price on that. LOL

Pres. Pershing’s “response” today confirms for me that I’ve made the right decision. It’s alienating and disappointing, to say the least, and it makes me sad that this is how the board chooses to respond to the issue.

I’m just one person, I know, but RWA needs to know that people ARE leaving. I will no longer be a part of this organization. Instead, I will spend my time doing things that are healthier and more productive for my career–like writing. :D

Thank you for letting me share my opinion.

Sincerely,

Rhonda Stapleton
member 52449


Brenna Lyons

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:20

Okay… That makes more sense.

But you’re right, it is cutting a lot of people out of the loop. EPIC has a body of works portion of the bylaws that specifically covers authors who only write short stories and novellas. They are professional writers, as well.


Crista McHugh

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:22

Normally, I stay out of heated discussions like this, but I wanted to throw a couple of thoughts in:

1) Consider the source. Ms. Pershing is primarily published by HQN/Shilhouette (although it’s been a while she’s had a release). If any publishing line is known for its rigidity, it’s those old standards.

2) Consider the time for change. Thankfully, Ms Pershing will be out of office this fall (unless there’s something in the by-laws about impeachment). But who’s going to take her place? Another member of the old guard that’s resistant to change? And where does it leave us members who love our local and electronic chapters, but hate the National bureaucracy? Maybe we need to start infiltrating the organization from the regional and then national levels if we ever want to see the changes we desire.

Frustrated Members, please fill out your proxy forms and send them to Nationals with someone you know will vote with your interests in mind if you cant be there yourself. If enough of us band together in a way the RWA understands, maybe we will make an impression they can’t ignore.

OK, back to watching this discussion…


Amy Ruttan

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:24

All my fellow e-pubbed authors say it so much better. I’m 6 days from delivering and I’m afraid my hormones would make me say what I REALLY feel about this organization.

If it wasn’t for my local chapter, who treats ALL pubbed members and pubbed members, I wouldn’t be a member of the RWA> I was in SF last year, I didn’t go to the PRO retreat because I wanted to hear lectures which were not being taped.

A week after I returned from Nationals, I became PAN. My May royalties from EC on my novella came in. It had been out in May for two weeks and catapulted me over the silly $1000 dollar requirement.

I think if an E-publisher lasts for more than 5 years then they are eligible in my view. As most e-publishers go belly up within 2.

I’m been biting my tongue all day, but I have learned so much from being an Ellora’s Cave author than I ever have from the RWA.

That’s just my 2 cents.


Eva

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:25

“But you’re right, it is cutting a lot of people out of the loop. EPIC has a body of works portion of the bylaws that specifically covers authors who only write short stories and novellas. They are professional writers, as well.”

It’s cutting out a huge amount. All of the novella writers who’s primary publication avenue is e-publishing. You know, the ones that need the information the most?


Maria Geraci

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:25

I’ve been reading more and more articles about the possibility of large NY publishers going to no advance/larger percent of royalties forms of payment for authors. Today’s economy is forcing publishing (like many other businesses) to sit up and take stock of what’s working and what’s not. Regardless of how one is published, one thing is certain. Change is always inevitable. And RWA must learn to change along with publishing. I hope the outcry that has stemmed from this debate will make the powers that be realize that in order to truly represent the diverse needs of its many members, RWA must keep up with the times. Digital publishing (in it’s many forms) is here to stay. As writers, we need education to make informed decisions.


kis

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:27

I’m not sure I’d be interested in a $1000 advance if it means I make print royalties on my ebooks. $1000 doesn’t even pay my bills for a month, but 40% could conceivably be a very tidy sum if sales are good–and it only stands to get bigger as the Sony and Kindle more deeply penetrate the market. I think the main difference between the advance model and the high royalty model is patience. Advances make sense when you consider that with the slow pace of print publication, the complicated returns system, and the biannual schedule of payment, a print author with no advance might not see payment for up to three years from signing with a publisher. Epublishers tend to get books out faster, and royalties start rolling in between one and three months after publication, with nothing held back as reserve against returns. I’m okay waiting, because the long tail of epublishing gives me earnings almost immediately, and over the long haul. I’m patient enough to wait until publication, in return for that bigger share of the pie.

I do wonder if there’s room within the RWA’s mandate for a compromise, where epublished authors are given the choice of a $1000 advance and royalties of 10%, or no advance and the much higher industry standard of 30-40%? Because that I could get behind.

As for why an agent would not represent authors who publish with epublishers, why would an author want an agent to take 15% of their money when epublishers don’t require submissions to be agented? I’m not sure I see the logic there.

I honestly don’t think RWA is prepared for the digital age. If they were, they’d be advocating with equal zeal for higher digital royalties for NY authors. It’s an absolute travesty that many NY authors earn the same percentage on their ebooks as on print–especially when so often the books are priced the same as print. How much gravy does the publisher need?


Liz Pelletier

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:32

Christa-
2. I nominate Ms. Knight :)


Deidre Knight

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:36

Diane, you raise the question as to whether I personally represent any authors who want to continue in e-publishing, a point I’d like to address. For the most part, the e-published clients I’ve signed on want to continue handling that part of their career without my representation. Others do ask me to rep both sides of their career. In yet other cases, some of my digital authors decide to write exclusively for New York publishers. Every client’s needs and desires in this regard are different. We do submit to e-publishers, clearly, since I’ve done contracts for authors like Rae Monet, Monica Burns, Rhyannon Byrd, to name only a few. Just a few months ago, we placed Kristen Painter with Samhain. Most e-published authors, across the board, choose not to work with an agent, as others below have remarked.

I’ve spent thirteen years in this business advocating for writers of every genre and type, attending conferences, judging contests, advising authors I represent and those I do not. I believe anyone in our industry knows that my priority has always been protecting and safeguarding authors’ interests. To imply that my motives are driven by a personal agenda was not only inaccurate—and a way to dodge the real issues—it was insulting.

Yes, I’d like to enter the RITAS with my e-book (a point I made to you in private correspondence, not in my article). But I’m much more frustrated and concerned by the mixed messages RWA sends to *all* their e-published authors regarding national contests. Did you see the many, many comments from members who say they can’t enter the Golden Heart or the RITA because they fall between the cracks?
I am not alone, and I chose to speak up because the contests are but one element where RWA is failing its membership.

Also, I don’t see how you corrected my “misinformation” about the digital panel at national this summer. I stated that RWA isn’t holding a single workshop on digital rights—and you confirm that fact. Further, to use last summer’s workshop schedule and lack of attendance as rationale against booking a speaker this year only proves my overarching point—the digital market is changing daily, yet you are basing choices on what happened a year ago. Not only that, what of the general membership, since this was a presentation to the PRO retreat?

Your sales stats and figures are also outdated since they reflect 2008 sales and e-book sales have exploded exponentially this quarter. The largest share of e-book sales come from romance titles. In fact, I was interviewed by a Wall Street Journal reporter about that very thing within the past month (his article has not run yet.) I could compile stats that reveal that romance e-books are a much larger share of the e-market than what your figures represent, but let me use the WSJ reporter and his article as an explanation. He was working up the article precisely because of the huge explosion of digital sales to women, *specifically* romance readers. I was told by Amazon that roughly 15% of every book they sell is the digital version—and I was told personally that my book RED FIRE’s digital version accounted for 25% of all Amazon sales of the title. That’s 25% of my Amazon readers—people who have a choice of digital or print as they purchase—opting for the digital version of my book.

@anon, let me address your comment as to how RWA can protect its membership from the unethical e-publishers by saying the following. Why is it necessary to rule out legitimate, good e-publishers in order to protect RWA from disreputable companies? Let’s use agents as an example. There are good ones and there are ones who charge reading fees and employ other unethical practices. However, I don’t have to defend myself against those people in order to prove my legitimacy. In order to be approved by the Association of Author’s Representatives, I had to meet three criteria:
1) Be in business for at least two years.
2) Show a certain number of sales to known publishers.
3) Receive letters of recommendation from other members.

I believe by establishing a set of criteria that any good, legitimate e-publisher can meet, one that would also disqualify the bad publishers, then the problem is solved. It’s about a fair and accurate set of criteria that reflects emerging business models—not using the old school measurement of an advance.

By the way, yes, there are publishers paying portions of advances a year after publication, typically this is in hard cover contracts where larger advances are involved. A payment is sometimes tied to the paperback edition’s publication.

In my opinion, the job of leadership is to build bridges and create cohesion. America’s newest president certainly figured that part out, and he also realized the power of online and digital media. He employed social networking, among other tools, to win the recent election, but he also utilized a positive outlook for change. As our president within RWA, I had so hoped your reply would address the needs of the e-published sector and reflect that kind of upbeat spirit of unity.


Arianna Skye

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:42

“I was in SF last year, I didn’t go to the PRO retreat because I wanted to hear lectures which were not being taped.”

Maybe they shouldn’t schedule untaped workshops around their pro retreat, that way they’d have more PRO members attend the retreat. I never bothered with my pro memberships because I assumed because my contract was with an e-pub they would turn me down.

Yep. My local chapter also recognizes me having a contract with an epublisher as being published. Local chapters are smarter than the national cronies. Oops… slipping into unprofessional territory…

“I think if an E-publisher lasts for more than 5 years then they are eligible in my view. As most e-publishers go belly up within 2.”

Excellent idea, Amy! Hope you don’t mind me quoting most your post. :)

Arianna Skye
WINGS OF DESIRE — coming soon to an epublisher *GASP*
#357011


Kat Mancos

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:45

I really wish you would have discussed the fact that you and your lofty board feel that epubbed authors are not “career minded.” Do you not realize that epublishers go through the same system of deciding what books they will buy and what ones get rejected? That we e-authors go through the same editorial process after the contracts are signed? That we have to go through our galleys and promote our books. And before you make the mis-statement that print publishers promote their authors for them- I’ll remind you that most NY-print authors are having to take on more and more of the responsibility of promoting their own work, since NY-pubs are devoting less and less money to the marketing departments. (That little gem came straight from a workshop given at the Atlanta Conference.) – I don’t think the demands of the epubbed authors are unreasonable or even threatening to the organization, but for some reason the board seems to be running scared that the epubbed will take over the entire organization.

There wasn’t one word of your reponse, Ms. Pershing, that I would even remotely consider in support of e-authors. And guess what…*shock and horror* – those epublishers you so glibbly dismiss, have books available in print as well. Books that are distributed by the same people that do the big NY-pubs. So, your logic is still prehistoric and your views prejudicial.

Quite honestly, if I didn’t enjoy my local chapters so much, I wouldn’t ever renew my membership to such a clearly divided organization. Do I want to get a NY contract? Sure, but I love my e-pubs as well. I think there is room for both in my life and this organization.

The reason you don’t have many electronic themed workshops or applications for such? Is because people who would present them already know their chances of being selected for the program are slim to none given the current environment. Why take the time to put together a proposal that has little chance of being selected. You’ve shot yourself in the foot with that one. Same for PAN applications. Don’t sit there an quote bogus statistics that by the very virtue of your elitist stance you’ve created by making a segment of the membership feel less welcome. That’s not a very supportive attitude.

I went into reading your response hoping for the best, but got exactly what I’d expected. More of the same.


XandraG

in June 19th, 2009 @ 09:56

A non writes:
None of the commenters so far seem to have gotten Diane’s point. Yes, there are a couple of e-publishers who do a good job and make money for at least some of their authors. But how does RWA protect its members from those who don’t (and believe me, there are far more of the bad guys than the good guys out there)? If not by setting some minimum standards, then how? Ideas, please, instead of just more complaints.

Not by setting standards *without* presenting facts. Standards are useless without facts. I don’t need arbitrary standards that make crap-all sense (who here can live on a 1k advance for 18-36 months?). I need facts and realities and industry practices presented to me without bias, so that I can make my own decisions. Or heck, even with bias, but I need to know them rather than blindly trusting that Mommy RWA knows what’s best. Especially when Mommy doesn’t make it a point to know what’s even out there.

I’d also like to know who’s more career-minded–the author with a not-quite-mainstream manuscript sitting in a box under the bed (or on a hard drive gathering pixelated dust) and making no money and no impression whatsoever on *anything* (because dustbunnies are largely illiterate), or the one with the not-quite-mainstream manuscript that’s published with a small, indie, e-press and selling copies and making a few bucks here and there and maybe even a few fans and readers here and there, too, who want to see what else this author’s got.

Ms Pershing, thank you for your response. But I don’t need justifications, excuses, or preservations of the status quo that is so clearly not only not working anymore, but also expanding and changing on its own, whether RWA likes it or not. To me, RWA is a professional organization that I joined for commiseration and information. If RWA isn’t providing me that information, and I can find the commiseration at a hundred other places both online and in person, then RWA doesn’t have much else left to offer me. I’m really hoping that’s not the case, because I do happen to love my chapters, who take a more progressive and informed stance than National. If RWA wants to become more of a respected name and driving force in publishing, it needs to be informed as a body, not just acting as hired muscle smashing at things it doesn’t understand.


Serena Shay

in June 19th, 2009 @ 10:00

All I can say is that I am well and truly disappointed in Ms. Pershing’s response. Clearly, only a few voices are heard at the national level and mine is not one of them…Yet!


Tammi

in June 19th, 2009 @ 10:08

What are the guidelines are who is voted into office? The way I see it – the problem isn’t with RWA but the people we have been voting into office. To see change we need people on the Board willing to make those changes – it’s more then evident with the current Board change is not going to happen. People are afraid of change and things they don’t know. We need a President and Board members educated on both NY and E-pub. Problem is our current President doesn’t have the experience in E-pub to have a well informed opinion. Sounds to me there are others on the Board that has this same issue. We need to be voting in people who will see to making changes that are to the benefit of not only its members but the organization as well. Narrow Minded thinking is not an improvement nor is it moving forward. While we can be thankful that terms of office have a max number of years that one can serve the position we may see the same thing until we have well experienced NY AND E-pub authors on the Board. These are all things to consider while we are voting. I know one thing is for sure – I wouldn’t vote to have most of the current Board back in their positions. I/WE need someone who will stand up and “represent” ALL members regardless of publishing form. Yes I would agree that there should be guidelines – and even the NY pubs have guidelines with RWA but it’s time to take a look at these current guidelines and get them updated and current where the industry is currently at. If thinking like this had continued many years back – women still wouldn’t be able to vote. And thank goodness for the forward thinking people, people not afraid of change, people not afraid to fight for rights of others – all author’s no matter what pub form they are currently with or will be with in the future deserve to have someone who will listen, make the best decision for ALL. This to me sounds more like a President and Board who are looking out for their own interests not the interests of its members.


Jackie Barbosa

in June 19th, 2009 @ 10:15

I could go on for hours here, but other people have beaten me to the punch.

What I found most telling in your response, Ms. Pershing, is this number: 316. That’s the number of authors you say became eligible for PAN in the past year. (I don’t know whether that’s a fiscal year or a calendar year or what, but it hardly matters.)

That number is 3% of RWA’s total membership. Even granting that a signficant proportion of existing RWA members are already recognized as published authors, I am not sure how RWA can be claiming to represent the interests of ALL its members when talking about a rule that applies to such a small percentage of that total. Even if half of RWA’s 10,000 members are PAN or PAN-eligible, the 300 who become “published” in a year under these standards is pathetically tiny.

How does this “rule” represent the best interests of “all” RWA’s members?


Kimberly Nee

in June 19th, 2009 @ 10:16

Wow – I’m almost speechless by Ms Pershing’s response, though it’s pretty much exactly what I expected it to be, sadly enough. I’m also one who keeps up my RWA membership because I love my local chapter. Otherwise, there’s no way RWA would get another cent from me. After all, I’m one of those e-pubbed authors who isn’t career-minded – which is a sentiment I find pretty insulting. When you stop to think about it, which author is the career-minded one? The one who has one book published, obtains the $1,000 needed for PAN membership, and never (for whatever reason) writes another book. Or would it be the author who chooses to go with a Samhain, and regularly has books released, sells well, but because Samhain isn’t “approve” or “eligible” or whatever term RWA uses – that author isn’t PAN eligible. In what universe does that even make sense?

Oh, and has RWA decided what the term “mass produced” means? Last thing I saw, they were still trying to figure it out. I don’t have a lot of faith in an organization that can’t decide what its own wordage even means.

I originally joined RWA in 2000 because I thought I’d get a lot out of it and it would help me navigate my way through the maze that is publishing. But it didn’t take long to figure out that all I’m getting out of it is an $85 (and aren’t the dues going up?) magazine subscription.


Bronwyn Green

in June 19th, 2009 @ 10:19

Thank you Diane, your response to Dierdre’s post illustrates perfectly why I chose to leave the RWA.

In fact, at the beginning of this year the entire RWA chapter I belonged to dissolved its association with the RWA. With a stance like this, I wouldn’t be surprised to see more individuals and chapters following suit.


Brynn Paulin

in June 19th, 2009 @ 10:21

Wow. Just wow. I’m glad I left the RWA two years ago when they decided my long awaited publication didn’t qualify me as a published author. Funny, I apparently get paid every month by three publishers for doing nothing. And I get fan mail from avid readers for the same reason. My many books are just unpublished ghosts…they don’t exist. They’re something I think about in my spare time but do nothing about because I’m not a professional. Huh…

Thanks, I’m better off on my own RWA. Though I’m e-published, I am a professional writer who takes my job very seriously, and I don’t need you to know that. You never represented me even when I was a member. I just had a high-priced subscription.


Melissa Schroeder

in June 19th, 2009 @ 10:21

Tammi,
Fellow epub author Kally Jo Surbeck and I ran a few years ago. Our numbers were pretty close to PI membership.
Each region has a representative up for election each year. ALL members vote for ALL elections. As shown last year in the US election, getting the vote out is crucial. I know that percentage who do vote is very low.
Getting the vote out, and getting people to run are big issues. If there seems to be a real groudswell this year, I would be happy to reup in July and work for change. Not sure if that is going to happen though.


Lauren Dane

in June 19th, 2009 @ 10:29

Oh, BTW, Brenna – Yes, Spice does indeed pay an advance for Spice Briefs.


Brenna Lyons

in June 19th, 2009 @ 10:33

Lauren,

I know it does, but last time I checked, it was NOT $1000. Then again, as we already stated, the entire setup is geared to novels and category-length novels. Short story and novella authors are SOL in the RWA mindset. That’s a shame.

Brenna


Cai Smith

in June 19th, 2009 @ 10:48

Crista McHugh said: Frustrated Members, please fill out your proxy forms and send them to Nationals with someone you know will vote with your interests in mind if you cant be there yourself. If enough of us band together in a way the RWA understands, maybe we will make an impression they can’t ignore.

That’s all well and good, Crista, but there are no motions before the board for the meeting in DC. Even when members have TRIED to get discussions for motions and actual motions before the Board on erotica and “recognition” for E-publishing they are unsuccessful. It does no good to turn in a proxy if there is nothing to vote for…


Barbara J. Hancock

in June 19th, 2009 @ 10:54

Let’s see if I can see the big picture through those glasses Ms. Pershing donned…

According to Pershing, RWA educates its members.
So, as writers, we hone and polish our craft under RWA’s guidance.
Over the course of a decade, more and more writers become adept at their craft.
Over the course of a decade, NY slots become fewer and far between.

It seems to me that the ignorance being displayed here is not ignorance of e-publishing so much as it is ignorance of supply and demand.

How long do they expect talented writers to be content to let their stories gather dust on a shelf? Surely, RWA can see that if they are successful meeting their objectives *they* create this imbalance? When I first joined RWA, the organization touted the 8,000 member number here, there and everywhere. Now, it’s ten. And while I know that not all ten thousand members can be brilliant writers, I’m sure many are.

Where are they to go and what are they to do once they “graduate” to producing publishable manuscripts? Has RWA, in fact, created a “workforce” with no place to find “respectable” employment? Back before there were any e-publishing avenues, there was less chance for good writers to find places for their books and more were left to just sit at the feet of their “masters” at RWA polishing and submitting and worshipping at the feet of those that had “made it”…oh wait, maybe there are a bunch of folks who long for those good old days??

My bottom line is this: A manuscript sitting dusty on a shelf *makes no money*. A reputable e-publisher willing to give an author 40% is a damn fine alternative. Now they tell me that a practical, fulfilling business decision isn’t up to RWA’s standards. (They say hold out for 1,000 dollars up front. I say accepting 500 dollars pays my car payment right now!) Now they tell me that I’m not published and can’t enter their Rita and I’m too published to be in their Golden Heart. What I say to that is this: I’ve learned more from my editors at Samhain and Loose Id then I’ve ever learned from one of their precious contests.

*And maybe that’s what’s really put the bee in their bonnet, after all*

RWA is facing a new era where members can often find what they need to know on Twitter and Facebook before the RWR even arrives in the mail. They’re facing a time when even NY publishers are paying less and less. They’re facing a time when people are learning by doing and participating in the publishing process rather than paying big bucks for contests and conferences and workshops over and over and over again and getting nothing in return. This isn’t about us(e-pubbed authors) against them(RWA ). This is about them becoming ancient history right before our eyes.


Kimberly Van Meter

in June 19th, 2009 @ 10:58

I’m not afraid to leave my name or voice my two cents on this volatile topic. I support RWA and the president’s message. It would seem that if there is as much unhappiness as it would appear by the shrill attacks posted by those employed by various epubs, then perhaps their interests would be best served by a separate organization geared toward their particular writing styles and business models. Surely that would go a long way toward silencing the debate that continues to divide so many. Those who want to remain epubbed could happily do so without feeling ostracized and those who want to write for both NY houses as well as epubs could comfortably reside in both homes.
As to the attacks on the RWA President Diane Pershing for her attempts to explain the board’s position, it comes off as unprofessional on the part of those who cannot express themselves in a diplomatic, adult fashion and it is clear they would be much happier in their own organization.


Eva

in June 19th, 2009 @ 11:11

“then perhaps their interests would be best served by a separate organization geared toward their particular writing styles and business models. Surely that would go a long way toward silencing the debate that continues to divide so many.”

So are you saying don’t let the door hit you on the way out?

“it comes off as unprofessional on the part of those who cannot express themselves in a diplomatic, adult fashion and it is clear they would be much happier in their own organization.”

Heh. This makes me laugh. It’s always the women who aren’t afraid to argue that are called shrill. NO ONE personally attacked Ms. Pershing and they are all entitled-as paying members- to voice their displeasure with well reasoned arguments which these were. Was Deidre shrill? Should I go down the list so you can point out who was shrill? I learn a lot when authors like Shayla Black get on and post the black and white of both businesses-the same with all of the other well spoken authors that have posted. Members are angry and rightly so. And they are entitled to express that anger to an organization that happily takes their money and pats them on the back telling them they are not career focused and that their publishers are author mills. You on the other hand didn’t come on and make an argument on Ms. Pershing’s behalf, you attacked the posters.


Brenna Lyons

in June 19th, 2009 @ 11:12

Perhaps the answer is not ONLY that all the dissatisfied RWA members and potential members should find other support networks (and yes…they do exist, thankfully) but ALSO that RWA should call it like it is. They are going to teach you how to submit to a very narrow band of publisher and support only people who publish with that band. If you have aspirations outside that, you should simply leave now. Of course, we know RWA won’t admit that, but…

FWIW, there has been very little unprofessional behavior here, though there are admittedly a lot of people on BOTH sides of the pond who are upset by the blinders the RWA board is wearing.


Maya Banks

in June 19th, 2009 @ 11:17

Ms. Van Meter,

I absolutely respect your position. I respect your opinion. I appreciate you taking the time to post your thoughts on this very delicate matter, however I would never suggest that you leave the organization simply because your thoughts do not mirror my own or that your career path is different than mine.

Best regards,

Maya Banks


Francesca Hawley

in June 19th, 2009 @ 11:19

Ms. Pershing, I expected something new from you in this post. Silly me. Like many here have already mentioned, I maintain my membership for my local and online special interest chapters. From those places I’ve learned a lot. From RWA national – not so much. The irony is that one of the reasons I’m published today (e-pubbed) is because in 2007 e-pubs were “okay” and I had the opportunity to attend spotlights for e-publishers and I pitched my book to Raelene Gorlinsky of EC. She told me to send the sub. I did and now I’m a published author. So many of my fellow RWA members did not have the same opportunity last year and will not this year. I think this is so incredibly sad. Instead of learning what a reputable e-publisher looks like, writers are left at sea. Uneducated and easy prey for those “bad” e-publishers your mother warned you about.

As to Ms. Van Meter, you sound like those folks who say “love America or leave it.” I paid my dues like all other RWA members and so I have the right to get value for money spent like all the others. I may not love RWA right now – but I should not be, or feel, forced out for being “different”.

However Ms. Van Meter, I’ll take your well-meaning suggestion under advisement. It might be smarter to sleep on deck in the cold rather than be locked in steerage while the Titanic goes down.


Melissa Blue

in June 19th, 2009 @ 11:20

I’ve tried. I have really tried to keep my mouth shut about this. I. Just.Can’t. So forgive me before you even read my response, but I have to say it. And, this is going to be long….

“RWA policy prohibits a non-Eligible publisher from offering a workshop.”

This quote, right here, is why your argument holds no weight. The rule just creates a circular argument where you and the board that sides with you, is right. This rule and many other’s like it helps create the I told you so stance that you have adopted. How can an e-publisher educate authors from every stage of their career if they are not allowed to do a workshop? And, who would be better to give this information? An author who can only speak from her experience or an editor and/or owner who has a bird’s eye view of e-publishing and it’s model?

Here’s a thought, maybe e-press authors, editors and owners are just a little tired of the rules being changed every year. How many hoops do you expect professionals to jump through before it’s no longer worth their time?

“They are, however, still trying to put together a panel on digital publishing, but only if it can offer in-depth and unbiased information.”

And when editors of Harlequin or any other approved publisher present a workshop it’s unbiased? When they are allowed a Spotlight, it’s unbiased?

“This is upside-down logic. E-published authors are only one segment of RWA’s 10,000-member population. What of the huge majority that constitutes the rest of the membership?”

Let me take a stab at this…authors who are not published. Who need to be educated about the entire industry not just the corner of it that you deem worthy. Since I don’t have the numbers let me just break it down with logic.

10,000 membership

A percentage are general members, which can be broken down to

Published (lets use your definition, NY only.)

E-Published Authors (Lets include the ones that are both NY published and e-pubbed since they let themselves be hoodwinked.)

Unpulished

Associate Members

Honorary Members

So, I’m to be believed with this break down the Published authors out weight the unpublished and the e-published authors? That the majority of your “all” fall into the published category?

Show the numbers.

“No organization can make everyone happy, but RWA goes on, no matter what.”

I can promise you that if you serve another year as president, this statement would be the first death knell heard through-out the romance publishing world. This statement reeks of arrogance that has been in all of your articles since you took your first stance that e-published authors were not “career-focused.” You disagree? Most people use the Merriam-Websters dictionary to define words. You use Pershing.

“ I have received quite a lot of support for it, from members both unpublished, print-published and even digitally published, and from the industry itself.”

Again, show me the numbers.

“Does she represent any authors who are remaining in the digital format and not moving over to print?”

And, this statement is why you are the Bush Administration to Romance Writer’s of America. Maybe you were so busy penning your next article for the RWR that you didn’t do any research. So, let me present to you:

OMG, Deidre Knight herself! That took me seconds to find out. Who would have thought it?

“There are a number of other points of view among digitally published authors. They fall into several groups, from those who have signed with a publisher who basically runs an author mill (lots of authors signed, publisher cleans up because of quantity, authors earn out very little if anything) to the top two or three digital publishers.”

At this point, your whole argument is built on sand and there is a huge wave coming in. It could be the glasses I’m peering out of, but you make this behavior, this sort of treatment of authors, exclusive to e-publishing. I’m sorry, but being offered a little advance with a low return on profits speaks of an author mill to me. Being offered less than 10 percent on my e-book sells speaks of an author mill to me. Being dropped by my publisher after low sales even when they put 0 dollars behind me for marketing and/or promotion speaks of an author mill to me. But, authors still take this hand-out. What is your stance on that?

Oh, yeah, they are more career-focused than I’ll ever be as long as I continue to e-publish.

“ Does legitimacy mean number of entries in the RITA contest? See above for stats on that.”

Again self-serving rules. Why would anyone send in their book when they’ve been told their book doesn’t qualify?

“No publisher is banned from conference. Those who cannot offer the basic minimum to meet RWA standards to all authors may still attend. However, they must pay the registration fee and make their own arrangements for space to meet with authors.”

Didn’t you say earlier that you encouraged unbiased information for workshops. Why is it any different when a publisher is sponsoring the conference? Or setting up a table in the Goody Room? Or having spotlights on their publisher? Isn’t that biased?

“Nope, not denouncing Harper Collins at all, but consider the authors they will be asking to join this initiative—established print authors with reputation and readership.”

If this business model isn’t beneficial for ALL writers, why do you support it when Harper-Collins considers doing business this way? You say it will mostly be established authors. How is that thought process any different than some authors will make money hand over fist e-publishing. Stop contradicting yourself if you want people to side with you, because it just makes you look bad.

“Actually, the RWA board’s published members have not experienced receiving any part of their advance a year *after* publication, but thank you, Deidre, for bringing it to the board’s attention.”

Hmm, interesting. Educating another author about pitfalls opens a dialogue. Who would have thought it?

“Just because something is currently popular with those who have chosen to embrace it doesn’t make it necessarily right. Or wrong, either. Time alone will tell…”

And, hasn’t time told that NY way of paying an advance proved that it may not be the best model? Hence, the 21st century comment.

“RWA believes it is crucial to stand firm in our conviction that an author has a right to guaranteed payment for her work.”

So, do I as do most authors. Insulting them in the process is what makes people not listen.

Here is the only idea I agree with you on and trust me it pains, PAINS me to agree with you. That legitimate e-pubs should show more, do more to prove they are in invested in their authors. /agreement. Because even though a $1,000 advance sounds nice it doesn’t work for the e-publishing model. I would love to have a decent debate about what it could be with RWA, but your stance is clear that the it’s your way or no way.

But, this is where I think everything goes over your head. Let me repeat what you say to paying members of an organization you are the face of for the moment. You are not published until you’ve made 1,000 dollar. How or why you think this isn’t insulting is beyond me.


Shiloh Walker

in June 19th, 2009 @ 11:22

If anybody is interested, I’m doing an informal survey on epubs and RWA.

So far, about 70% on average are pubbed. Of those about 35-45% are published in traditional, 85% are pubbed in ebook (I’m allowing multiple answers since some of us do both).

Here’s the kicker, though, of ALL the reponses, more than 90% of ALL who’ve answered feel RWA needs to do more to educate on epublishing.

Turning a blind eye isn’t doing that educating. Neither are letters in the RWR.


azteclady

in June 19th, 2009 @ 11:25

I find all this fascinating, as a reader. My only dog in this fight is to have stuff to read, not who publishes or what organization its author(s) belong to.

If I am reading what Kimberly Van Meter and anon wrote accurately (obviously a big if), then it’s pretty much like this:

People who pay their dues and who feel they are not receiving the benefits implicit in paying them (help, education, facts on publishing, etc.) to allow them to make their own choices, should a) leave, and b) keep their mouths shut?

The accusation of shrill/unprofessional behaviour may apply to some comments (probably mine) but what about the well reasoned, fact-backed comments from people who know whereof they speak? Authors who are making money through both business models, with books published both with print, RWA-endorsed publishers, and e publishers. Are they also shrill and unprofessional, simply because they disagree with Ms Pershing’s stance and statements?

One has to wonder.


Brenna Lyons

in June 19th, 2009 @ 11:36

Shiloh, would you mind giving a link to your survey? I’d love to get people over there. There is another going on at http://surveys.polldaddy.com/s/904EFBDB8B8B97FD/ This is a simplistic look at what e-published authors are earning per book on average. The more, the merrier. Let’s get some numbers rolling!


Raelene Gorlinsky

in June 19th, 2009 @ 11:42

Snort. Well, let’s look at just a few items of the twisted information and logic presented by the current RWA president.

Only two workshop proposals for digital publishing: Um, do you think that perhaps this could be because the people most qualified to put on such workshops were excluded from doing so? I was flatly informed by RWA that Ellora’s Cave was not permitted to hold workshops, book pitch appointments, or have a Publisher Spotlight at the RWA National conference. So if all the e-pubs are excluded, and their authors made to feel unwelcome (as has happened), of course there would be few people to propose a workshop in that topic.

“Last year, RWA brought in a highly qualified speaker, Michael Smith, Executive Director of the International Digital Publishing Forum (IDPF) to speak at the PRO Retreat. The attendance at this session was extremely low.”: Why did you guarantee failure of this speaker by scheduling this for the PRO Retreat, instead of making it a session available to all attendees? Of course the attendance was low, because the workshop was restricted to a small group, and by putting it in PRO, publicly labeled by RWA as information not relevant for published authors.

“governing in the interest of all its members and not the few” : No, I strongly contend this is NOT how RWA works. They govern only for the majority, and neglect all others. Black authors? Oh, they aren’t the majority, so they have always been slighted by RWA. The various romance genres that are not white, heterosexual, two-person stories? Definitely not supported or encouraged by RWA, despite the huge popularity of those stories amongst romance readers. E-pubbed authors? I suggest you take a count, and you’ll find out what a huge number you do indeed have.

Pay advances on all books: Uh, huh, and therefore stop offering publication opportunities to many excellent authors and books. Because of the different financials involved in publishing ebooks, the e-pubs don’t have to sell as many copies as print pubs in order to cover costs and then hopefully make a profit. And THAT is what allows e-pubs to take chances on new authors, on small niche markets, on speculative books and emerging sub-genres. The big NY print pubs don’t do that, because they can’t feel assured that such a book would garner the minimum many thousands of sales needed to cover their much higher costs – including that advance that in so many cases is never earned out. E-pubs offer the most honest and respectable publishing venue: an author gets exactly the money they have earned by writing a great book and working to publicize it to the appropriate readership. And therefore e-pubs can take the chance on offering a wider variety of stories, and testing to see what does or does not succeed.

I have a challenge for RWA: Make “format” of a story irrelevant. A story is a story, whether on paper or an audio book or an ebook, or whatever technology comes along next. If your basis for value of a book is that the author earn a certain amount, then when and how that money comes has no importance.

I should point out that my attitude toward RWA mirrors 90% of what I hear from all authors – I, and so many authors, love and support our local chapters, work hard for them, and see the many benefits the chapter provides. I belong to RWA National only because it is a requirement in order to belong to my regional chapter. However, I see little to no value to authors from the National organization that is more concerned with fighting change, excluding authors who represent the future of publishing, and causing conflict and division amongst its members.


Tammi

in June 19th, 2009 @ 11:44

@Melissa Schroeder Thanks for the info. I became a member last year and renewed this year so I’m newer. I did weigh out if RWA – since I knew of this ongoing issue was worth joining. The ONLY reason I joined RWA was to join my local chapter as well as an online chapter. If there was the option to not be involved with RWA and remain in my local chapter I’d do it. I do hope you run again – I hope all people not afraid of seeing change and wanting all members to have the same membership benefits run for an office.

@Kimberly Van Meter Most of us joined RWA to network with other authors and to join our local chapters NOT because we agree with everything RWA does or who serves on the Board – for now (and yes I said now) RWA seems to be a leader but with this kind of thinking and the unwillingness to accept change and look into the future will not continue to be. It’s the narrow minded thinking of saying well if you don’t like it you can leave that is wrong on more then one level – and for you saying about people not being professional – well maybe you have a thing or two to learn about that as well. Someone being professional would never say to someone if you don’t like it leave – basically you are saying people shouldn’t fight for what they believe in -how very sad. All people have a right to voice their opinion and part of being on a Board means you are responsible to the WHOLE of the membership not just the chosen ones and for people wanting to see change because it’s clearly evident that’s the direction the industry is not a bad thing. Another part of being on a Board is the fact that no matter what you will always hear people direct comments at an individual. The President is the face of the organization and right now people are not happy about the representation that is being done for the organization.

What is being asked isn’t something that hurts or harms anyone and in fact would do not only the members good but the organization on a whole. Look at where the industry is – look at where the economy is on a whole. The fact that some people don’t want to see RWA grow and work with technology and where the industry is headed is very sad and not a very smart business move. But hey if RWA and some of it’s members want to be held back in the dark ages then so be it – there one day will be an organzation that looks at things on a whole and don’t work off of some people’s personal agendas. Every member has a right to voice their happiness or unhappiness with the current Board and should do so. I didn’t see any posts that were extremely uncalled for. People are angry that attempt after attempt are told well because you are not a particular kind of member published with a particular publisher that you don’t take it seriously and you are not as in to your career. These posts are based off of more then just this one post the President did.


Shiloh Walker

in June 19th, 2009 @ 11:44

Brenna, better just to go to my blog. The survey limits to 100 responses, so I’m just putting copies of it out there each time it hits the allotment.

I’ll keep the links on my blog updated
http://shilohwalker.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/writers-other-industry-people/


Raquel Rodriguez

in June 19th, 2009 @ 11:49

It’s just so wrong not to change & update as the industry changes. Again with all the excuses about committees and task forces to research stuff. Again I feel like I’ve been slapped in the face by RWA & Ms Pershing because I’m epubbed. WHY should I stay in this antiquated Sisterhood Club? I don’t see a reason any more. So sad.


Melissa Blue

in June 19th, 2009 @ 11:57

“Does she represent any authors who are remaining in the digital format and not moving over to print?”

And, this statement is why you are the Bush Administration to Romance Writer’s of America. Maybe you were so busy penning your next article for the RWR that you didn’t do any research. So, let me present to you:

OMG, Deidre Knight herself! That took me seconds to find out. Who would have thought it?

Scratch that statement. But, the point I was trying to make is still the same. If an agent sees that e-publishign is a viable, what’s stopping the president of RWA?


Jody Wallace

in June 19th, 2009 @ 12:06

Ok, fess up, Ms. Pershing. This and your letters have been a brilliant tactic designed to drive the “hobbyists” out of RWA so the board & hypothetical majority don’t have to deal with the whinging anymore, isn’t it? I’ve never seen so many people declaring their intentions to quit RWA. Homogeneity is harmony, I guess.


Mitzi Flyte

in June 19th, 2009 @ 12:11

Diane Pershing wrote: “(although, from the new PAN applications, it doesn’t seem that the “majority” of authors at either publisher is doing as well as Deidre claims).” There could be many authors who are doing well who do not have the need to join PAN.


Evangeline Collins

in June 19th, 2009 @ 12:20

I am very disappointed by the clear bias in Ms. Pershing’s response. I cannot see how RWA can be ‘…dedicated to advancing the professional interests of career-focused romance writers through networking and advocacy.’ [from RWA's homepage], when it does not support those career-focused members who choose electronic publishers. And yes, I believe RWA does not support e-published authors. RWA is structured to support the print publishing model, from its rules governing the RITA to its definition of Eligible Publishers to its lack of education for its members on e-publishing, not to metion its president’s clear bias against e-publishers.

I would caution Ms. Pershing against using PAN application stats to support her point that more print vs e-pub authors make $1000 per title. I qualified for PAN using my Berkley advance simply because I sold to NY before I sold to Samhain or Loose Id. I can qualify for PAN with all my books, including the royalties from each of my three e-published novellas. Just because an author qualifies with one type of book, doesn’t mean she/he could not qualify with another. Also, not all authors choose to join PAN.

I can only hope that the next president of RWA will be more open to serving all of its members, for it’s clear to me that the current president is not and does not intend to be supportive of the chosen career paths of all its members.

-Evangeline Collins
-Ava March


C Smith

in June 19th, 2009 @ 12:20

Wow. Interesting rebuttal. I too am e-published but have a different view. RWA isn’t the be all end all of a writers life as we know it. If you aren’t happy with RWA, don’t renew. An author doesn’t need RWA support to get published anywhere. Why are so many people worried about what they think? I personally like that RWA isn’t accepting of everyone throwing up a shingle and calling themselves a publisher. Prove you aren’t fly-by-night and then we’ll talk!
I thought Diane’s challenge to the e-pubs to put their money where their mouths are and pay a 1000.00 advance to all their authors was an interesting one. If e-pub’s think their authors can make a living with their company, pay up front. They won’t because they would fold in a week. Only those at the top will ever make decent money at an e-pub and deep down we all know it. But who cares? I sold to an e-pub to take a step up. I never expected to make big money. I can’t wait to see how this all plays out in the future!


Candace Sams

in June 19th, 2009 @ 12:22

Is there a way that RWA members can change the bylaws so that NO BOD member can ‘ever’ get behind closed doors again and decide for all the rest of us what is and what isn’t recognized?

Seems to me that this ‘recognition’ thing is at the bottom of a lot of these problems and should have been considered by the entire membership….not just a ‘few’ who’ve conveniently made sure that ‘their’ pubs are recognized every year. And yes….there are NY pubs that’ll take advantage of authors just as quickly and as easily as any fly-by-night small press. I’ve got an editor now at a NY pub that won’t make contact for months on end and his co is still invited to every RWA event where smaller press editors who’re operating more professionally are excluded. There really ARE more issues to discuss about the recognition of a pub than the money they hand out. Or, as some have mentioned, should RWA ever have recognized anyone to begin with? That was what started a lot of this mess.

And just because I’m curious…..

How is that, under the nonprofit laws of Texas (the same laws under which RWA was formed) due paying members don’t get the same rights? I don’t see how RWA is taking the same dues from all the members, then disallowing access to certain venues (such as contests). If I can’t enter a contest where placing or winning might garner me expensive advertising opportunities, then haven’t my rights been violated right there? Hmmmmm…..

Is taking the same due money from all of us, then disallowing us from comopeting in the same competitions even legal under the nonprofit laws in Texas….under which RWA was formed? I’m just curious….


Stacia Kane

in June 19th, 2009 @ 12:24

Sheesh. Ms. Pershing, your reply really ought to shock me, but it doesn’t. The idea that you think it’s okay, as the President of an organization that purports to be a professional one, to completely ignore the wants and needs of a segment of your *paying* membership, should surprise me, but it does not.

Nor does it surprise me that your attitude here seems to be that you are in charge, and you will decide what your members need. The RWA does not belong to you, Ms. Pershing. It belongs to its members. ALL of them. Your members are asking for education; you’re ignoring them because, gee, you just don’t feel like it. Your arguments are specious, your reasoning arrogant and absurd.

The RWA does NOTHING for its members, on the national level. You do not advocate. You do not educate. You should be doing those things, but you don’t. You should be teaching your members how to evaluate epublishers and small press publishers, and what to look for. You do not. Instead you bury your head in the sand and pretend that you have no responsibility to them, and that they do not deserve an organization that meets their needs in exchange for their dues–which, I hasten to add, are exactly the same amount as everyone else’s.

As Seeley DeBorn pointed out, the RWA actually offers none of the benefits a REAL professional organization offers. You’re a social club, in essence, one which deliberately excludes people. One which actively discriminates against people, in violation of your Code of Ethics.

Why anyone bothers to continue RWA membership is beyond me. I think all those local chapters should break off from the RWA and go independent; save their dues money for something useful. The RWA has no power, does nothing, and openly discriminates against its paying members–the people it has a responsibility to support.

The RWA, and Ms. Pershing in particular, is like a child with its eyes squeezed shut and its hands over its ears, chanting, “Ican’thearyouIcan’thearyou!!” over and over again. I say fine. Leave them to their little social club and go it alone; they don’t provide any information which can’t be gotten elsewhere, for free, and without the snippy attitude.


Peachfuzy

in June 19th, 2009 @ 12:24

I’m so done with this argument. None of this will change anything. It is a group run by the elites who are unabashedly bigoted against anything out of their version of the “norm” (straight romances). They miss trend after trend and only give in when faced with overwhelming anger by members.

Why should any aspiring author want to sign up with a group that will treat them like dirt unless they get published according to the RWA model for success? The grand old days of NY Publishing are over.

Instead of being forward -thinking and advocating for new models for publishing and revenue for their members, they hold fast to the good old days. The $1000.00 threshold if merely indicates how out of touch they really are.

Let them enjoy their phyrric victory, it’s time to form a progressive and inclusive group and let RWA choke on its own bile.


Maree Anderson

in June 19th, 2009 @ 12:25

I should be getting ready to take my son to his soccer game, but hey, having freshly washed hair & not looking like something the cat dragged in isn’t as important as posting a comment here!

I’m a Kiwi – a New Zealander – and I live in New Zealand. I’ve been writing full-time for about 4 years, thanks to the grace of an understanding husband who is happy to help me try to reach my dream of being a published author.

Now, I’m not going to address the ins and outs of epubs vs print pubs and advances and earn-outs etc, because everyone who’s gone before me has done a damn fine job of addressing that. And, since I haven’t had a coffee yet this morning, THANK YOU ALL!

So here’s where I’m at. My debut novella came out this month with Red Sage Publishing. It’s a novella, i.e. 30,000 words, published with a company that’s been in business for 15 years and has helped launch many a famous now print-pubbed author.

According to most RWA chapters, for the purposes of their contests I am “unpublished” and therefore eligible to enter. Which I frequently do and I’ve done quite well in them and those placings have given me an “in” with various judging agents when it comes to queries. Fantastic! Among other things, that’s what I signed up for.

But the Golden Heart, the one we’re told is the premiere contest, the one which the RWA rep on Twitter yesterday gleefully tweeted was taking the kudos for *gasp* “20 finalists having full manuscripts requested by agents and editors”, is denied me. I am “published” according to RWA National, and therefore, ineligible. And let’s not even address the Rita, because you and I all know I’m not eligible for that!

So RWA National won’t let me enter the GH or the Rita. But the majority of their chapters are more than happy to confirm my “unpubbled” status and let me enter. Huh? Gee, thanks for the support.

What exactly is RWA National offering me then? Not a heckuva lot! Frankly, if I didn’t have to belong to RWA National in order to belong to RWA chapters, I’d have to seriously consider forking out that USD105 / NZD 163 per annum. Because, you know, USD105.00 is an awful lot to charge for a monthly magazine. And that, my friends, is all I’m currently getting for my money.


Shiloh Walker

in June 19th, 2009 @ 12:26

C Smith said:

…” Wow. Interesting rebuttal. I too am e-published but have a different view. RWA isn’t the be all end all of a writers life as we know it. If you aren’t happy with RWA, don’t renew. An author doesn’t need RWA support to get published anywhere. Why are so many people worried about what they think?”…

It’s not that I care what the board thinks. I don’t.

But RWA claims to advocate romance writers. But they are excluding epubs.

It’s not that I think I need RWA-I don’t. However, I do like my local chapters-I can’t have one without the other.

It’s not that RWA is the end-all. But if they want to call themselves “the voice of romance” then they can’t really do that unless they listen to their members, instead of the ideas of the board alone.

RWA could do a hell of a lot more to educate their members on epubs, which would only benefit those members-they’d learn who to steer clear of, what they could expect, what red flags to look for, etc.

But they can’t do that until they realize there’s a need to educate themselves.


Stacia Kane

in June 19th, 2009 @ 12:28

Oh, and by the way, I agree with Candace Sams. I’ve suggested before on my blog that members look into filing a lawsuit, because as far as I know, no, discrimination by a non-profit is not legal in TX.


Lisa

in June 19th, 2009 @ 12:30

C Smith said:

I personally like that RWA isn’t accepting of everyone throwing up a shingle and calling themselves a publisher. Prove you aren’t fly-by-night and then we’ll talk!

In this I agree with you, but the measurement criteria should match the business model they’re trying to address. Epublishing isn’t going away. Books published first in print are now being digitally published; some digital books are being published in print. RWA needs to wrap its brain around how digital publishing works and advise its members about the best way to profit from it.


Deidre Knight

in June 19th, 2009 @ 12:31

@Melissa Blue, your point about me being both an e-pub and print author remains viable. I *chose* to publish electronically after I began publishing with Signet/NAL. I continue to choose to do so for a variety of reasons, ranging from the freedom I have to explore unconventional storylines, to the wonderful royalties (paid quickly), to less stressful deadlines. Those are just a few reasons, and I hope to continue writing for both print and e-publishers for quite some time.

To everyone else, I’ve chosen to tackle this topic not for personal reasons, as was suggested–although, yes, I would love to enter my print version of BUTTERLY TATTOO in the RITAS when the time comes. Nor because I have some great motive in getting Samhain, EC or others approved, at least apart from seeing RWA’s members benefit from having interactions with these publishers and from other benefits their publsihed authors deserve.

Rather, I joined the fray because as someone who has been advocating authors’ rights for 13 years, I finally reached the end of my patience regarding RWA’s constantly shifting stances regarding e-issues.
You *are* approved–you can do xyz…oh, wait, you have to sell 5,000 copies of a print edition…no, that’s not it…your book has to be “mass produced.” Oh, your books are too sexy for approval because of the content….

The list goes on, and as a business person, seeing RWA cling to outmoded definitions of what makes a career-minded author (I’m sorry, if you’re making money, i don’t care if it’s paid before or after release…not if you’re making four times as much in royalties, are able to publish far more often (uh, let me tell you about the writers who are with pubs that won’t put their books out except ever 11-14 months). All the many benefits, THAT is why I could and would support a publisher that foregoes paying advances in favor of a list of benefits.

Guess what else? I’m not alone in this thinking. AAR, NINC and other publishing organizations all realize the importance of digital opportunities and future. So to suggest that I’m somehow less than a good agent because I *do* support e-publishers and a system of higher royalties in lieu of advance is ludicrous.


jim duncan

in June 19th, 2009 @ 12:36

Kim Van Meter: “best served by a separate
organization geared toward their particular writing styles and business models.”

I sincerely hope this isn’t a prevailing sentiment among a majority of RWA members. If it is, RWA is screwed.


Leslie Dicken

in June 19th, 2009 @ 12:44

I finally reached the end of my patience regarding RWA’s constantly shifting stances regarding e-issues.
You *are* approved–you can do xyz…oh, wait, you have to sell 5,000 copies of a print edition…no, that’s not it…your book has to be “mass produced.” Oh, your books are too sexy for approval because of the content….

This has been my hot button. Who does changing rules from year to year benefit? Writers and publishers have no idea where they stand at any given point — the most recent RITA fiasco is a case-in-point.

Anyway, if you (RWA) are going to make a stand, then make it, stick with it, and don’t shift the rules around. Besides making us dizzy, it makes you look uncertain and petty.


jim duncan

in June 19th, 2009 @ 12:46

Some different posibilities/thoughts (feel free to expand/change):

Epub must have been in business longer than 24 months (since apparently, many fall out before this time frame).

Epub must have a minimum of ??? authors under contract. No clue what would be appropriate here.

Epub must pay in a timely manner (no advance? ok, quicker pay schedule. most do this) Quarterly? Monthly? Six months?

Pro/Pan split? Bah-bye. The point is, all aspiring authors and pubbed authors need the information. Unpubbed writers need the kinds of things geared toward pubbed authors well before they ever get pubbed.

Considered published if you are under contract to be paid royalties by a non-vanity/subsidy publisher who qualifies.

Folks here must have notions/ideas in this regard. Let’s hear them.


Shiloh Walker

in June 19th, 2009 @ 12:52

Kimberly Van Meter said:

“…I support RWA and the president’s message. It would seem that if there is as much unhappiness as it would appear by the shrill attacks posted by those employed by various epubs, then perhaps their interests would be best served by a separate organization geared toward their particular writing styles and business models….”

As one of those shrill-voiced authors contracted- CONTRACTED-not employed, there is a difference-by epubs, I feel the need to address this.

I’m also published by Berkley. I’m contracted with Ballantine on a 3 book series.

Why can’t the organization that claims to be the voice of romance, that claims be to be romance’s advocate offer me what I need as an epubbed author AND trad. pubbed author?

The needs, believe it or not, are not that far apart. The board seems to think they are. The board seems to think there’s a vast difference between writing for epubs and writing for print.

There’s not. Or at least there hasn’t been in my career.

And the bottom line-Ms. Pershing claims she’s looking out for the membership as a whole, protecting their careers. But education is how an author makes wise decisions. The board is hiding its head in the sand-that is not educating.

Perhaps if we didn’t have commenters like you coming out and attacking us-yes, it feels like there’s an attack-every time one of these things came up, if the board would LISTEN to use, if they would show us some respect and consideration, we wouldn’t keep being so shrilled voiced.


Bryn Donovan

in June 19th, 2009 @ 12:56

If I’m reading this correctly, Ms. Pershing brought up something from a private correspondence of Ms. Knight’s into a public forum in order to personally discredit her. This is really disappointing behavior and it doesn’t instill confidence in Ms. Pershing’s position. When you have a strong argument, there’s no need to resort to discrediting those who hold an opposing point of view.


Jeanne Del Potro

in June 19th, 2009 @ 13:25

Is there a way that RWA members can change the bylaws so that NO BOD member can ‘ever’ get behind closed doors again and decide for all the rest of us what is and what isn’t recognized?
===================================================

Board Meetings do not take place behind closed doors. As I understand it, members are more than welcome to attend. Not that anyone ever does. The information was passed on to members and there was time to write to your board members if you had a problem before it was implemented – not that anyone ever bothers. I think it was implemented in part due to that huge Trisk fiasco that blew up around that time. Trisk was an RWA approved, recognized publisher.

If you have a problem with something you should write to your board member, instead of complaining on blog posts. The more letters they get, the more likely they are to do something about it.

As for getting knocked back, well it’s a fact of life. If you’re just going to give up at the first sign of trouble then maybe what you’re fighting for isn’t that important after all. I would have thought being published authors you had thicker skins.

If you don’t like the RWA and aren’t actively working to change it why don’t you let your subs drop? Or why don’t you join EPIC? That’s supposed to be there to look after the interests of epublished authors.


jim duncan

in June 19th, 2009 @ 13:26

Something else has just struck me as odd. This stance on advances, is focused on Publishers being willing to take risks on clients. Nevermind the fact the epubs are taking risks on clients that may not sell well in print form. What about the author side, who is wiling to forego an advance for the opportunity gain readership and potential sales? By saying I have to garner an advance is basically saying that RWA knows better than I how I should publish. That doesn’t sit quite right with me. How about letting me take my own risks? How about acknowledging the fact that I’m willing to take a chance against an advance and working my butt off to sell and make money off of my work. How about offering expertise in taking advantage of digital publishing and maximizing my opportunities to be successful instead of saying that no advance is a poor choice there for we’re going to rule against you making it for your own good. That’s not looking out for me. It’s limiting.

So, RWA leadership. I don’t need you to leverage your weight against the epubbing world. Frankly, it’s not going to work. Epubs are continuing to be successful and bringing success to many authors. If you want to help, inform about ones with shoddy business practices so I can avoid them. Tell me about the ones that are good. Tell me what a good epub contract should look like. Highlight good epub editors. Educate me on ways to maximize my publicity/marketing opportunities on a limited budget. You have access to a lot of resources, which you should use to help me succeed. I pay you for that, and you do do that in a lot of ways. But telling me where I should be publishing by trying to enforce arbitrary limits is not one of them. So, for the benefit of us all, buck up and change this policy.


annie nicholas

in June 19th, 2009 @ 13:32

This post seemed more of an attack on Deidre’s post than an answer to RWA member’s questions. Very disappointing and unprofessional.


Kimberly Van Meter

in June 19th, 2009 @ 13:46

In order to clarify (as web posts, email, etc) can often be taken out of context, particularly when hot topics are being discussed, I will add this:
In response to Eva’s “So are you saying don’t let the door hit you on the way out” I respond with a hearty no. If you find value in your membership, please, by all means, stay. But in the same breath, I have to ask why anyone would want to stay with an organization that creates such heartburn in their lives. I have a differing opinion than those who have posted negatively on the subject. I happen to be happy with my RWA membership and I would think that just as comments are welcome from people who are dissatisfied, so should mine about being completely satisfied and supportive of Ms. Pershing and the BOD. Is it a perfect organization? Heavens no but I’d challenge anyone to provide me with an example of one that is. My suggestion, which was received poorly, to create an organization more amenable to the epubbed tastes isn’t a suggestion to “get the hell out” but simply an alternative possibility to the unhappiness that seems to be coming from certain factions within the membership. Personally, if I was as dissatisfied with my membership as I hear certain people are, I wouldn’t be persuaded to stay. I have joined many clubs, organizations, etc, and if they didn’t fit within my needs, I didn’t renew my membership. I would feel no differently if I was no longer pleased with my RWA membership. As someone else posted earlier (pardon my memory) you don’t need RWA to sustain a publishing career and if I could tack something additional onto that comment, if you are pleased with your publishing home and the returns you are receiving, what does it matter what anyone else thinks?


Kimberly Nee

in June 19th, 2009 @ 13:51

My problem with the whole “perhaps you would be happier somewhere else” argument is that, basically, WHY should I have to go somewhere else? In theory, there is a perfectly good organization already in existence. In theory, RWA is supposed to support all those pursuing a career in writing romance, not those pursuing NY-print publication, only. I don’t think it’s a lot to ask that epubbed authors be treated with the same amount of respect as NY print pubbed authors.

There’s also the fact that I DO get a lot out of my local chapter and one of the requirements for maintaining that membership is to remain a member with RWA. So, no – just letting my RWA membership lapse isn’t really an option.


Arwen

in June 19th, 2009 @ 14:12

@ Kimberly Van Meter
“In response to Eva’s “So are you saying don’t let the door hit you on the way out” I respond with a hearty no. If you find value in your membership, please, by all means, stay. But in the same breath, I have to ask why anyone would want to stay with an organization that creates such heartburn in their lives. ”

Ms. Van Meter, thanks for chiming in and being honest enough to share your name here. Kudos for that. It’s often difficult to be a lone voice in the midst of so much opposition.

You ask why anyone wants to remain.

I’ll tell you why I want to remain.

From The Heart Romance Writers and FF&P are my two online chapters. I just joined ESPAN-RWA this week. I have gotten the support I need, the buttkicking I deserve and the inspiration I crave from those first two chapters. And I have to mention my two land chapters of Colorado Romance Writers and Heart of Denver for similar support. I no longer belong to them because I moved to Texas. I have not yet joined my local chapter here due to my work hours.

In those groups I found people who got me. They understood my .. not need. No need isn’t a strong enough word here. They understood my urgency to write. It isn’t a matter of choice for me. I write because I can do nothing else.

As Marilu Mann (with my best friend Cai Smith who has also posted here), I have three stories out. Two are novels (over 50k both) and one is a novella. Next Friday I have my fourth publication coming out with Ellora’s Cave.

My chapters celebrated the first sale. They cheered the subsequent sales. I have made dear and enduring friends because of RWA’s local and online chapters.

The head of this organization–the Board–simply does not have the pulse of this organization. I would be crude about where I think the head of this organization currently is, but I’ll by-pass that graphic language for the purposes of this post.

As I and many of us here have said over and over again, I stay because of the support and friendship of the women (and men) of the RWA chapters.

If I could join my chapters without joining the organization, I would do it in a heartbeat. It is the management of this organization that is the problem, not the rank and file.

I hope this answers at least part of your inquiry.


Eva

in June 19th, 2009 @ 14:14

“But in the same breath, I have to ask why anyone would want to stay with an organization that creates such heartburn in their lives.”

1. Because the actual goal of RWA is worthy is one reason I stay.

And, like many others have stated above, they stay FOR THEIR CHAPTER. Not National. If there was a way they could *not* have to join National to be chapter members they would do it, and that also is a reason I stay. It does not mean that I happy swallow everything that National tries to tell me.

Another reason we stay is because we believe RWA needs to change, and the only way to do so is to change it from the inside.

And I also think that you’re not taking into consideration the people that 1. will not renew this year and 2. don’t join at all because they see this type of prejudice go on all the time within the organization and they don’t have the time, energy or desire to swallow or change it.

And, frankly, I think y’all would love it if we hied off and left you all alone, and I’m just too much of a PITA to let that happen.


Zoe Winters

in June 19th, 2009 @ 14:17

Am I the only one getting the distinct impression that there are two stories going on here? On the one hand, folks like RWA and larger print publishers are talking about getting with the times and moving into the digital age and blah blah blah, and it all makes fantastic sound bytes, but actions speak louder than words.

When you say someone is only a legitimate e-pub when they change their entire model to be more like print pub (i.e. the $1,000 advance) then you are telling me, as an individual who doesn’t wholeheartedly swallow sound bytes as gospel, that you aren’t really that serious about digital publishing. Either that or you understand the business model so little that you shouldn’t be in charge of anything more taxing than processing membership fees.

When major print publishers think that Amazon’s kindle price for books of $9.99 is too low of a price to support their costs, that’s another indication that for all the rah rah about digital publishing, no one in the mainstream is yet truly on board with this yet.

In fact, I think probably most in the mainstream wish e-publishing would die a slow death, so they can get back to the business of moving dead trees around. Cause that’s “real publishing.” Can I get an Amen?


Shayla Kersten

in June 19th, 2009 @ 14:23

Kimberly Van Meter so since you’re happy with the status quo, those who aren’t should leave. Right? Heaven forfend the dissatisfied upset your RWA because they want something more from their organization.

Yes, there is a lot of sarcasm in the above message. However, you haven’t bothered to notice how many of the commentors stay with RWA because of their local and online chapters. Fortunately for the epubbed, local chapters seem to be more accepting of change than National.

I know you are a Harlequin author and I’m happy for you. No sarcasm there. I have a dream of being published by them one day and I work toward my goal.

In the meantime, I make really nice money on my epubbed novellas. Money I need to live. I’m single, no husband to support me while I write, to carry health insurance I need to maintain. I’m also only partially employed in my day job, thanks to the wonderful recession. If I hadn’t had people in my local with information about epublishers, I might have ended up in a mess instead of with a reputable publisher.

Now I have a question for you. Are you happy with your digital royalties from Harlequin? Will you be happy with your digital royalty rate of 6% or whatever in five years when half or more of your sales are digital?

This information and advocacy is part of what we want from National. What we NEED from National. We NEED information we can trust. We NEED education for new authors and someone to understand digital royalties when contract terms are questioned.

I’ve heard the story how RWA helped get some unfavorable terms changed with publishers. How will they help you when they don’t bother to understand the value of digital publishing?


Tanya

in June 19th, 2009 @ 14:26

“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.”
–Mahatma Gandhi


Beth Yarnall

in June 19th, 2009 @ 14:47

I have been a member of RWA for a little over a year and achieved the PRO status in my first few months, I am yet unpub’d. As a relitive new comer I have been listening to the back and forth of this debate and I have to say I support RWA’s position. Ms Pershing’s and the board’s reasoning is so obviously well thought out it’s hard to not find the logic in it. I agree that is seems the epub’d authors are going to bat for their publishers with little if any support from the entities they defend. Have any of the epublishers taken up and defended their business practices and lack of author support? If they have and I am unaware, pardon my ignorance.
I hope the epublishers take Ms Pershing & the board up on their challenge and meet RWA’s standards. It will certainly separate the men from the boys, the author-centric publishers from the fly-by-nights.
One other thing- Where were the photos of Diane Pershing’s books, her shameless self promotion sprinkled throughout her letter? Sorry, but I couldn’t resist pointing that out.


Vivi Anna

in June 19th, 2009 @ 14:58

Anon, had asked for ways to change this…

Here are two very simple things that RWA could do to show a) that they really do care about ALL their members b) that they are thinking of the future of the industry and our careers

1. just like there is a list of rWA approved agents and publishers, have a list of approved epublishers on the main site
2. allow said epublishers to take pitches at Nationals and provide publisher panels talking about what they are looking for and what they are currently publishing and what is selling well

These two things would help ALL members no matter what career path they chose, it should be THEIR choice not yours, and by limiting information to those who are asking for it, you ARE limiting those choices


azteclady

in June 19th, 2009 @ 15:01

One other thing- Where were the photos of Diane Pershing’s books, her shameless self promotion sprinkled throughout her letter? Sorry, but I couldn’t resist pointing that out.

Wow. Seriously?

There are so many assumptions there — and so many nasty comments that could be made.

wow.


Kassia Krozser

in June 19th, 2009 @ 15:11

I am disappointed by this response from Diane Pershing because she hid behind circular logic, used a poor example to bolster her position (though kudos to RWA for bringing in Mike Smith to address some elements of digital publishing), and failed to address the specific issues in Deidre Knight’s original post. I have many thoughts on this response, too many to fit comfortably into comments, but this needs to be addressed because it’s a bad analogy:

A no-advance model, even a 50-50 model will always benefit those at the top. Brad Pitt can work for no upfront money and accept a nice piece of the net profits of his next film, but what about the actor in the same film with three lines? He’s still considered a pro, has his SAG card. Is he to work for no money? How will he live? After all the percentages have been counted, he has a really good chance of getting nothing at all.

Setting aside the fact that Brad Pitt more likely gets a piece of gross (or adjusted gross) proceeds (not profits) , it should be noted that any actor, including our three-line actor, who meets the criteria outlined in the agreement between the guild and the producer receives both salary and residuals. Brad Pitt may choose to lower his standard feet for a higher percentage of the proceeds on the backend, but he will still earn the SAG minimum, at a minimum, as well as residuals. (The “percentages” being referenced, the ones that run out before the poor three-line actor gets his cut, do not exist — that actor would never have been in line to receive a percentage of shares/proceeds/participations to begin with.)

The difference here is that Brad Pitt and any other actor are not the owners of the creative work. They are contractors hired by the producer to do specific work. Authors are the owners of their work and they license their books to publishers in return for payment that is ongoing during the life of the contract (unless it’s a work for hire). It’s a different kind of relationship.

In the HarperStudio model (which publishers are watching very closely because advance levels and risk-taking are on the wane, and if HS makes this work, other publishers will be trying it for themselves), the thinking is that the publisher and the author are working as partners, each bearing an element of risk. HS puts up editorial, distribution, and marketing support (often in the form of hard costs). The author puts up creative and marketing support — the latter because they’re working with the kind of authors who understand they are part of their own success. This shared risk — and potential reward — means both sides work as hard as they can to make the project successful.

Another way to look at this example is to note that Brad Pitt, for reasons known only to him and his business people, chooses an alternate form of compensation, based on varying criteria (perhaps belief in a movie that major publishers won’t touch due to perceived commercial value versus overall cost, an independent producer he admires). He chooses an alternative mode of compensation in return for a greater return if the movie does well.

Hmm, doesn’t that sound sort of familiar?


Kassia Krozser

in June 19th, 2009 @ 15:13

Blockquotes didn’t work. The following was the direct quote from Diane Pershing’s piece:

“A no-advance model, even a 50-50 model will always benefit those at the top. Brad Pitt can work for no upfront money and accept a nice piece of the net profits of his next film, but what about the actor in the same film with three lines? He’s still considered a pro, has his SAG card. Is he to work for no money? How will he live? After all the percentages have been counted, he has a really good chance of getting nothing at all.”


Shayla Kersten

in June 19th, 2009 @ 15:15

I can’t believe I’m posting again, however, Ms. Pershing’s so-called challenge keeps coming up. I guess no one has any idea of how a business is run. Let me explain.

Right now, epubs pay after they’ve collected the money on the authors books. As soon as a copy sells, it becomes a payable to the author but the epub has the cash to pay. Not a problem. And not unusual in the course of a normal business. Companies don’t stockpile cash.

If the epub has to pay $1000 advance, even if it is split out over signing, acceptance and publication, the epub has to fork over money they haven’t collected yet. I’ll use my last three books as example.

I sold all three within a couple of months of each other. If a third of each were paid at signing, my publisher would have had to pay me $333 per book. Then when edits were done, all of which was done within a month, another $333 per book. The on publication amounts would have been paid in February, April and June.

They would have had to pay me at least $2000 in advance of collecting the cash from the sale. And I’m only one author. For example, EC publishes 8 books a week. And that doesn’t count their other imprints. Do the math. For just one month’s worth of books, they’d have to pay out $32000.

To change their business model to paying a $1000 per every authors work would require an enormous influx of capital. During a recession. To be realistic, with publication dates an average of 4-5 months after signing, they’d require an influx of at least $200k to change what is already a successful business model. Why? Because their authors are happy with the model. They’d be changing because RWA’s leadership is too short sighted to see digital publishing as a viable and thriving alternative to NY print.

They’d be fools to take up Ms. Pershing’s challenge.

As far as an advance proving belief in an author’s work…I call bullshit. My NY publisher did nothing for me. I paid for my own advertising and promo. I couldn’t even get my editor to answer my emails. I’ve heard horror stories about too many print publishers for me to be sucked into that idea.

All of the epubs I’ve worked with have been fantastic with communication. They promote their brand all over the web and in certain print magazines.

So you’ll never convince me that an advance qualifies as support from a publisher. It’s simply a different, and currently struggling, business model.


Tammi

in June 19th, 2009 @ 15:22

@ Beth Yarnall

“I hope the epublishers take Ms Pershing & the board up on their challenge and meet RWA’s standards. It will certainly separate the men from the boys, the author-centric publishers from the fly-by-nights.”

I’m sorry but I don’t think and many others don’t think there is much logic to this whole thing.

There is a flaw with RWA’s standards. They are outdated which is a huge problem. As the industry goes in one direction – which has been and will be for a long time e-publishing for various reasons – RWA should move with it. E-pubbing is not a trend it’s here to stay. And as it’s been pointed out e-pubs have a very successful business model they follow – why would they change their successfull business model to be more like NY if NY is struggling with freezes and layoffs, lines closing just so they can meet some old outdated guidelines?? Now that would make no sense at all. What does make sense is for RWA to look at the guidelines as they are now and update them so they are more accurate and current – to include an industry leader like e-publishing and to support ALL of their members. What is being asked is for RWA to take a look at all the facts and how successful some of the long standing e-pubs are and for all members to be supported because after all RWA doesn’t exclude e-pubbed authors from paying their dues or anything like that – they shouldn’t exclude them in being recognized as a publisher.


Fiona Vance

in June 19th, 2009 @ 15:45

Well, Ms. Pershing, as you keep saying, money talks,

So I will let my money talk for me. My renewal is due by 6/30. I will not be sending it in. Count me out.

Your term ends on October 31st. Perhaps there will be something worth $85, plus the $25 reinstatement fee, to look forward to in November.

Fiona Vance


Ciar Cullen

in June 19th, 2009 @ 16:10

Ms. Pershing:
While I admire the sentiment that RWA exists to “protect” or “lobby” for the good of authors, I don’t buy it. Or I would not be in the position, like many here, of falling between your eligibility guidelines for your contests. Not to say a contest is essential to an author’s legitimacy, but that it points to a flaw in your membership “requirements” for publishers.

I read along thinking you were simply old-school, and didn’t “get” a different business model, until you took some really low shots at Deidre Knight. She is not my agent, unfortunately. You not-so-subtly accused her of trying to pull one over on everyone by lobbying for exceptions for EC and Samhain. There may be an agent/author out there stupid enough to do that, but it’s not her. I don’t know if Ms. Knight negotiated a $1000 advance for her wonderful Samhain title, but I am confident she was treated well, edited well, promoted well, and will be paid well in a timely manner for that title. What more are we looking for from any publisher? Can you honestly say that about every “legitimate” NY publisher? If you were truly looking out for the interests of romance authors (I’m evidently not one in RWA’s eyes), you would want companies like Samhain represented at RWA.


Jeannie Ruesch

in June 19th, 2009 @ 16:28

Ms. Pershing, when I heard that you were going to post here today, I had hoped it would be to actually open a dialogue about this issue. Epublished and small press authors are facing a legitimate issue with an organziation that says it advocates for ALL authors. Instead of looking for ways to support us, you are trying to stop us from choosing this path toward a career. You’ve said yourself, in the June RWR, that anyone who chooses to contract with a publisher under this business model is uneducated and uninformed on the business of writing. My translation? You mean stupid.

According to the bylaws, the RWA board shall: “govern with an emphasis on (1) outward vision rather than internal preoccupation, (2) encouragement of diversity in viewpoints, (3) strategic leadership more than administrative detail, (4) clear distinction of board and staff roles, (5) collective rather than individual decisions, (6) future focus rather than past or present, and (7) proactivity rather than reactivity.”

I would like to understand how this position is governing with an emphasis on outward vision. How is it providing a FUTURE focus rather than a past or present focus that alienates authors and attempts to eliminate epublishing out of the organization? The current board may not agree with the epublishing business model, but how is that their call to make?

Your “call” to epublishers and small presses to abandon their business model is shortsighted. I imagine somewhere, someone also told the record companies to never sell their songs as individual downloads, too. The digital revolution changed the music business forever and the companies who did not find a way to work with that, rather than against it, became obsolete. CDs have not gone anyway, anymore than books will. But the ways to access the content became greatly varied and in order to thrive, companies had to adapt.

The world of epublishing is here to stay, and the business model of it is different than print because the BUSINESS is different than print. It’s part of why I believe it will succeed. The print book industry is suffering — lay offs, cutbacks from their author lists and much more. In the month of March 2009, according to the AAP website, sales in almost every print category decreased significantly–adult hardcover sales were down 19.4 percent, adult paperback sales down by 35.8 percent. Audio book sales decreased.

But ebook sales increased by 110.4%.

As ereaders become more prevalent, more accessible and the world in general starts to understand just what an “ebook” is, epublishing grows. It is not RWA’s place to tell the epublishers how to do their business or how to find a business model that agrees with their pre-existing standards. Back to your own bylaws, how is that forward thinking? How is that proactive rather than reactive?

Instead of trying to stomp epublishing and small presses away like a bug, instead of trying to stem the direction the epublishers are going, RWA as a whole should be working hard to educate their members on what epublishing is. They should be teaching them to understand the world, what the advantages are, what the limitations are, what it means for their careers, what it requires of them. They should be giving them access to the legitimate epublishers who have established themselves as leaders in the industry. Certainly there needs to be benchmarks, because THAT is what RWA is for. To guide its members in choosing among the available choices. To teach them, to help them further and grow their careers. You may not like epublishing, but it’s a choice for writers — one that is thriving more every day and more authors are choosing. It’s your responsibility to provide ALL the education you can about that choice. You are failing in that.

If you’ve followed twitter at all, you’ve seen the #rwafail tag. RWA *has* failed in it’s goal to educate and support its members — not just those of us already published with epress or small presses, but the LARGE percentage of RWA members still seeking publication. They have questions. You could provide answers and you choose not to. That makes me sad, because in so many other ways, RWA succeeds. You champion the romance industry, you provide opportunity, information and connections to the writers working toward publication (and yes, a contest in which to gain recognition). You support the authors you deem career-focused, simply because of a monetary number that frankly wouldn’t pay more than one month’s bills for most people, much less allow them to write for a living. And yes, those authors also have a contest in which to gain recognition.

But you are failing a portion of your membership — a growing portion of authors just as career-focused, just as hard-working. Stop trying to tell the epublishers how to run their business. Start advocating for your members at all levels of their career. I personally have sent emails with suggestions on how to do that — in the face of the big fat “no” that every letter you write seems to send us, I will continue to offer suggestions to help make our organization better. Forward thinking. Future-focused.

RWA is my organization, as much as it is yours. I paid my dues, I get involved. I attend conference. Meetings. I’ve sent in my request to participate and volunteer for organization committees. And you can bet that I am not going anywhere.


Dawn

in June 19th, 2009 @ 16:28

So much for my plan to join RWA. Why would ANYONE join an organization with leaders who espouse such antiquated, myopic, and backward views? Clearly RWA has very little, if anything, to offer those of us who live and work in the 21st Century.

SAVE A TREE – EPUB!


ev

in June 19th, 2009 @ 16:41

I am not a member of RWA, but I am a reader. And, if this is how you represent your membership, in total, that I feel it is a good thing that you are soon to be out of office.

I read my romance almost exclusively on digital. Why? For one, it is easier for me to store books. I am out of space. Secondly, I carry so many more books with me at once. Duh. Should be obvious.

What isn’t obvious unless you see me, is that I have severe arthritis in my hands and I can’t always hold a book and change pages and be comfortable when I do it. It’s the same reason my husband has an ereader.

So you can bet your bottom dollar, that I truly believe in the era of digital publishing and am willing to spend my time and money seeking out new authors and strange new worlds that many bookstores won’t carry or that the print run is so small you have to have a map, and be willing to pay delivery prices, to find.


jim duncan

in June 19th, 2009 @ 17:13

I’m a bit concerned regarding the supportive posts and Ms. Pershing’s call for epubs to step up and offer $1000 dollar advances. Have you looked at any numbers to understand the results of implementing such proclamation? I’d really love to see a couple of the bigger epubs chime in here with an approximation of what it would take to begin such practice. My guess? At the current publication rates, no way in hell could they afford it. My second guess? Folks who are insisting on this practice know this too. Which means they don’t want epubs to publish as many books or they want a reason to keep epubs on a lower rung of the publishing latter compared to traditional publishing. If you haven’t looked at numbers or considered the effects, then you shouldn’t be insisting on this practice.

Because, in the long run, the result is really only one thing. You’d be depriving a lot of writers from being published. Is that what you really want? Is RWA an organization that wants to limit opportunity or teach and support their members to do it smartly. Do you really want to be culling out the competition by insisting on a business model that doesn’t work for digital publishing. Or is this, as I’ve heard suggested before, an effort to keep erotica out of the RWA mainstream, which I truely hope isn’t the case?

All suggestions aside, my main point is this. The advance business model is not effective business in digital publishing. To make it work will ruin a lot of publishing dreams. I for one, am not going to support that.


Robin L. Rotham

in June 19th, 2009 @ 17:33

The RWA board overreacted in a big way to Triskelion’s bankruptcy. It’s like they witnessed a fender-bender and were so terrified, they refused to ride in any car ever again, or to let anyone they know ride in a car, because it’s possible to DIE in a car accident.

Never mind that most or all of the authors who were affected by the Trisk debacle eventually got their rights to their books back and sold them to other houses. Never mind that there are some well-established e-publishers with an excellent record of paying their bills. Never mind that some of those e-publishers pay excellent royalties to a large number of authors. Never mind that many New York print-published authors choose to continue selling to e-publishers. And never mind that even NY print publishers can’t guarantee “decent” income to every single one of their authors. The RWA board continues to base their every decision regarding e-publishers on unreasonable fear and the illusion that a token advance from a NY publisher guarantees an author income commensurate with the amount of time they spent writing the manuscript.

There’s nothing any e-publisher can do to convince the RWA board that, like most NY publishers, they’re reasonably safe to sell to. If some e-publisher breaks down and jumps through RWA’s $1,000 advance hoop, the board will do what it has always done — find some other way to disqualify e-publishers from RWA eligibility.

So tell me, Ms. Pershing, what’s the board going to do the next time a NY publisher goes under? Are you going to paint every NY print publisher with the same brush of greediness and irresponsibility and lack of commitment to their authors? Are you going to tell RWA members never to sell to any NY house because they might go under, too? Are you going to tell members they’re better off putting their manuscripts in their desks and never selling them to anyone because that’s the only way to guarantee no risk?

I hardly think so–you’ll give the other NY publishers the benefit of the doubt, because surely they can’t all be bad. It’s too bad you can’t offer e-publishers the same objectivity.


Tracy Preston

in June 19th, 2009 @ 17:50

You know what amazes me? Out of all the responses to Ms. Pershing’s post, only three spoke in favor of her stance (the origins of one anonymous post being suspicious at best). Hmmm…

I’ll start here — RWA bases the status quo on a $1000 benchmark and claims it’s to protect authors’ right to their fair share of wages for their work, yet they see nothing wrong in keeping money for contest entries which conveniently became ineligible after the fact. Exactly whose interests are they really protecting?

One could easily deduce from their own arguments that RWA’s standards are all based on their affiliation with NY print houses and good old-fashioned dollar signs. If that’s the case, maybe they’ll hear our argument if it adversely affects the RWA coffers!

Ms. Pershing’s own words: “As for members leaving and/or threatening to leave, I have been in RWA for 19 years and on the board for five. Each year members threaten to leave because they are displeased with something. Some do; most don’t. No organization can make everyone happy, but RWA goes on, no matter what.”

What is she really saying here? My interpretation is individual memberships are insignificant to Ms. Pershing, whose words as President represent the Board’s stance as a whole. We can disagree if we want, we can leave RWA if we want, but basically they won’t even notice, and RWA will go on. We’re irrelevant, inconsequential…after all – we’re just AUTHORS and paying members!

Honestly, what is the RWA for if it’s not for us? Are we not considered authors, just the same as everyone else, simply because we’ve chosen a different platform for our work?

My thinking is this – the number of e-published authors who are RWA members is far higher than they are willing to admit. However, the organization refuses to do anything to educate or promote us because of our choice in platform. So I ask you, what has RWA done for you lately?

If your answer is nothing, then why are you still with them? Why not end your relationship with RWA, who doesn’t recognize you as a “significant author” anyway?

If you’re still in RWA because of your local chapter, maybe you could speak with members about getting together outside regular chapter meetings. They might be feeling the same thing you are – sick of the national but attached to the local. How about a scheduled chat room session every few weeks with your group to discuss craft? If I’m not mistaken, Yahoo loops are free (correct me if I’m wrong). Or how about lunch meetings with those close enough to make it? If you manage to throw a new group together, you’ll still have your pals AND the money you’ve been wasting on RWA.

In other words, if that’s the only reason you stay, surely there’s a way around giving RWA your dues every year just so you can meet with your group. You don’t have to feel like if you leave RWA you’ll never get to see your friends again. There are a million ways to conference on the internet – and you can do it in your pj’s. ;o)

My point is, it doesn’t have to have RWA stamped on it to be a legitimate group. Maybe we should start our own “club.”

If RWA wants to speak in terms of dollar signs, then I suggest that’s how we answer! We need to present a united front, proving just how powerful the voice of the electronic print industry can be. If they won’t listen, then they will become obsolete. At any rate, they won’t be getting another dime from an “inconsequential” e-published author!

For me, it’s either abandon ship, or seek new, open-minded leadership, because the old RWA isn’t working anymore. I’m praying for changes before it’s time to renew, but I’m not holding my breath.


Ursula Bauer

in June 19th, 2009 @ 17:57

I’m a big fan of the scientific model. In layman’s terms, Ms. Pershing, that equates to “the proof is in the pudding.” I’m also an RWA member, and been one for quite some time. Did several tours as a local chapter VP, and one as Prez. Been with the organization through all the interesting and tortuous self-defining and proclaiming moments. I, as many others who’ve responded and are members (or not), am a published author. Multi-published in fact. How do I derive that conclusion: by using metrics that I feel represent a sound evidentiary model. And I would say that I feel more confident they reflect a more true picture of reality, than those put forth at any given moment in time, by the RWA. Which is why I’ve never worried too much about who’s saying what about ‘real authors’ and ‘real publishers’ and ‘real award winners.’ Here’s my evidentiary model, which I believe applies to many on this board, and those who have read your positional statement and evaluated, publicly and privately the merits of that position. I think if most folks ran themselves through the below criteria, they would come up with the same determination.

Fact: I am published with Samhain, and from them I receive monthly royalties. My first book is digital and print. My second digital, and soon to hit print.
Fact: According to my accountant, the IRS wants a piece of those royalties. The IRS recognizes me as an author earning royalties. So does my accountant. When it comes down to it, anyone can call themselves the Tooth Fairy, but if the Government labels you the Tooth Fairy and wants a cut of the take, then that’s about the best indicator of all that you are indeed, the Tooth Fairy.
Fact: My publisher supports me and other authors through many avenues of publicity. In some they bear the risk, in others we share. In all ways, that publicity increases my sales. Which results in more royalties, and more money to the IRS. So they must think I’m a worthwhile commodity. (How many one shot wonders withered on the mid-list because of scant or no publicity coming from the recognized publishers? Just a thought.)
Fact: I get fan mail. I have fans show up to book signings. I have fans asking when my next book is coming out. So I’d have to say, though it is anecdotal evidence, according to them, I am an author.
Fact: Romantic Times rated my first book Immortal Protector a 4 stars read. So I have been well recognized by an independent industry leader for my efforts. I know, it’s not the Rita or Pan, but you know, I know many RT readers who shop for books based on those reviews. It’s rather like the Romance industry’s Good Housekeeping symbol of approval. So according to them, not only am I an author, I’m a fairly decent one if you’re into Paranormal Contemporary Romance. When is the last time someone bought a book because it scored a RITA. Seriously. Ask ten shoppers. They’ll ask you ‘who the hell is Rita?’ Authors recognize it, publishers and agents do, but the buying public is largely unaware of what that means.
Fact: Samhain is digital. And Print. And follows a different business model than NY publishing houses. That works well for the venue and is constantly evolving to be on the edge of the wave, not behind it or buried beneath it. So I have digital sales and print sales, which means multi-venue distribution. (And that’s bad why?)
Fact: My publisher pays me, not the other way around.
I have to conclude based on the above evidence, that I am an author, and in the business model I work within, happy and successful. Which makes it as real and meaningful, and measurable, as I need it to be.
RWA has great value in networking. Never think for a moment it doesn’t. But it’s not a one size fits all structure, nor does it have historical precedent for being flexible and prepared for a rapid fire multi-purpose fit. We’re in a paradigm shift right now in publishing, same way the Weavers were when commercial looms first made appearance. Some will take the Luddite approach and rail against the demon of technologic advancement, maybe even go out and smash up a few looms. Others will fight them, even when that’s the equivalent of pushing a rock up the same hill every day only to have it fall back down again that night. The vast majority will remain silent, and continue doing what they are doing as best they know how. You must concede, whatever side you fall on, the evolutionary process in the industry will continue regardless of anyone’s opinion. The trick is to find the most meaningful measures, and they are not always the opinion of large organizations. Remember all those folks who insisted the earth was flat?


Tanya

in June 19th, 2009 @ 18:29

Your post reads like the same evasive drivel the organization has been spewing for years, Madam President. This is about the professional needs of *all* romance writers. Period. And these needs are not being met. Can you not *see* this?

BTW, I’m not E-pubbed, so I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I have a number of talented friends who are both E and Print published and these people bust their rumps every day: WRITING. PROMOTING. CRITIQUING. EDITING. STUDYING. TEACHING. READING.

E-published authors aren’t any less career-oriented than Print Published authors. To suggest otherwise is extremely hurtful, insulting and erroneous.

Why doesn’t RWA treat the E-publishing business model as unique and LEGITIMATE? Because it doesn’t want to. Because it’s comfortable with the status quo. Because it allows people to feel superior to others. Because some people NEED to feel superior to others.

Freud would have field day here.

How does RWA perpetuate this nonsense? By changing the rules whenever it suits them. By refusing to listen to cold hard facts. By purposely using outdated measurements for a 21st century business model, a model that’s ever evolving.

You **cannot** use Print-Publishing standards to judge the E-Publishing business model. Why? Because it’s a completely different animal. This is akin to a doctor prescribing antibiotics for a viral infection. Or sending a man to a gynecologist. Or better yet, using unleaded gasoline in a bus that only runs on diesel. The bus is just as much a legitimate mode of transportation as a car. It still carries passengers to their CHOSEN destination. But it uses *different* fuel.

Do you *see* where I’m going with this?

Should the organization’s name be:

ROMANCE WRITERS OF AMERICA

or

PRINT-PUBLISHED ROMANCE WRITERS OF AMERICA???

The first name is all-inclusive, while the latter epitomizes the stubborn, arrogant, ill informed, elitist and insensitive direction the organization has taken.

The digital age is here to stay and it ain’t going anywhere.

Deal with it.


KyAnn Waters

in June 19th, 2009 @ 18:34

It seems to me RWA’s policy shifts with the winds of NY. Now that NY is beginning to embrace the e-market, RWA is making a concerted effort to squash the competition for NY. Push EC, Samhain, Loose-ID and others out of the way, make them appear to be inferior publishers by not recognizing them as legitimate publishers and hopefully, NY can claim a bigger share of the digital pie. (at much lower royalty rates for authors. This from a friend who earns single digit royalty on her NY mass market paperbacks in ebook form)
This may just be my observation, but the NY authors who are the muscle behind the current RWA leadership over the past few years have continued to fine tune their attack to fit the change with the NY industry losing market share.


Tracy Preston

in June 19th, 2009 @ 18:40

“It seems to me RWA’s policy shifts with the winds of NY. Now that NY is beginning to embrace the e-market, RWA is making a concerted effort to squash the competition for NY.”

Ahhh…very valid point I hadn’t thought of. Thanks KyAnn.


Candace Sams

in June 19th, 2009 @ 18:52

Then why were so many RITA entrants disqualified over a new recognition standard no one had ever heard of this past year? If it was discussed, why didn’t everyone know about it and understand it? Why are so many on this blog saying that the standards for recognition change such that no one knows what to expect next? If the BOD is sharing what they’re doing, then why are so many clueless on that issue?

I don’t recall EVER giving any Board member the right to even ‘consider’ recognition standards. Come to think of it….I don’t remember ever giving anyone on the board the right to change the RWA goal from being an org meant to help authors get published to what it’s turned into – a means of taking out a lot of competition.

People BOTHERED….there were MANY on this blog who tried to reason with the board over any kind of recognition that didn’t include them. They were met with the same disdain shown by Ms. Pershing today. The recognition changes were ‘announced’, not ‘discussed’ and there’s a difference…..I do recall them….I also recall writing letters to the board. I sent emails, I made phone calls….I have a letter sitting on RWAs desk right now….I sent it a couple of weeks ago. The board (or at least most of it) – like Ms. Pershing – did exactly what it wanted, despite dissention over the recognition issue that everyone recalls QUITE clearly! Does anyone NOT remember that dissention? Weren’t we ‘trying’ to get someone to listen back then? Weren’t people writing their board members then? I think I saw a few hundred attempts being made to reason with them.

As I said, I HAVE sent letters and made phone calls until I’m blue in the face….the board (at least most of its members) saw fit to ignore what was sent…again , there’s a letter of mine on RWAs desk right now….no one has responded. If they’re of the same mind as Ms. Pershing, they’ll do exactly what they want to, without regard to what the general membership wants. But to keep beating this poor horse to death….many, many people on this blog sent notices of how they felt….and what happened? Well….I guess we’re all here because the board and Ms. Pershing were ‘listening’. Just like she listened today. As to blogging….we have that right….even the RWA BOD can’t remove that!

The first sign of trouble? Holy mother of……how many on this blog have been complaining about this kind of stuff for YEARS? they believed in the concepts RWA stood for, so they battled and stuck with it! I heard the battles, I saw the results. I know some of you tried writing RWA until your fingers bled. You openly shared you concerns; I saw your posts on RWA loops where it was appropriate to post them. As with the situation now, many of you attempted to get RWA powers that be to change their minds on several subjects, not just the recognition issue, but that was a huge one. Nobody got knocked back…people kept trying…..and I’d say anyone who can’t/won’t read these responses and note the frustration – frustration from previous attempts to have these issues addressed – was the party with the thin skin. Perhaps the truth just hurts too much.

I’ll say it again….I’ve been a member of RWA since about 1997. I never gave any board member the right to even discuss the recognition issue….that entire issue should be in control of the general membership and no one else.

Because that’s exactly what you’d like most of us to do. Then everything could go the way Ms. Pershing and a few cronies want it.
And because you just said,

“As for getting knocked back, well it’s a fact of life. If you’re just going to give up at the first sign of trouble then maybe what you’re fighting for isn’t that important after all. I would have thought being published authors you had thicker skins”

Which is it? Do we need to get thicker skins and fight for what we believe is important, or do we need to go to another organization when we don’t like what’s happening to us?

No….I paid my dues. I think I’ll stick around and keep writing those letters, even if they do get ignored, just as most everyone on this blog has been ignored. Why leave and give you exactly what you want? I have a ‘thick’ skin. I also think this ignorant dismissal of the future of publishing is going to come back to haunt some folks. Maybe I’ll be around long enough to see it.


Monica Burns

in June 19th, 2009 @ 19:32

To say I’m disappointed in your post, Ms. Pershing is an understatement. I’ve been a member since 2002, and in that time I’ve advocated to my Passionate Ink chapter mates to be professional and to work withing the organization’s rules to achieve results. But the response you posted here, well quite frankly, it makes me look like a jackass to all my fellow Inkers who’ve I’ve constantly told to remain cool, calm and collected. (Francesca, Robin, Crystal, Cara, Ember…ladies, mea culpa. I publicly admit that I was wrong and you were all right. And you KNOW how much I hate to be wrong.)

Mrs. Pershing, I found your post to be a defensive, shrill response to Deidre’s position about the digital industry. Unfortunately, it was just one more comment in the same vein I’ve read in the RWR for almost a year now. I expect more from the leaders in my organization, and it IS my RWA. It belongs to all of us, not a select few.

Since it is MY organization, let’s completely put aside the notion of who’s career-oriented or not, ePublisher eligibility, PAN eligibility, advances, etc. There is ONE thing RWA is NOT doing for it’s entire membership that its mission says it should be doing.

EDUCATION– RWA is NOT providing education about ePublishing, about piracy, about how ePub contracts are different from NY contracts, etc. RWA does a job fine when it comes to educating about NY publishing, but it doesn’t do squat for ePublishing. I mean honestly, if ePublishing were such the big bad wolf, you’d think that RWA would be building brick schools for educating their membership. That way members could spot the signs of a bad ePubisher, what not to sign away in a contract, etc. The issue of piracy is a prime example. ePubs have been talking piracy for years, suddenly some RWA NY pubbed authors are realizing there’s a problem. That wouldn’t have been a shock for those authors if RWA had been doing its job EDUCATING its members.

I am one of the clients Deidre pointed out as having repped to ePub. She represented me on TWO book deals with Samhain, and my first Berkley book comes out in Jan 2010. My goal is to continue publishing for BOTH Samhain and Berkley. It is the best of BOTH worlds. And just because Deidre’s my agent makes no difference to my opinion on the post above. Deidre’s a big girl and can take care of herself. I’ve take offense at a lot of the comments published in the RWR President column since the beginning of your term.

RWA has so many wonderful points in its favor, but I confess to being so….so…..damn it, I’m a writer and I cannot find the right word to illustrate how disgusted I feel right now with an organization that can’t even fulfill it’s mission to EDUCATE its members on ALL FRONTS of the publishing industry.

Monica Burns <– damn proud of her ePub roots


Aileen Fish

in June 19th, 2009 @ 19:53

Anon, in order for RWA to protect its members from “fly by night” epublishers, first they have to admit that some epubs are legitimate and a safe risk. Gather data regarding actual earn-out from all publishers. Advise the unpubbed author what to look for in a publisher, and when to run screaming. These are the questions I hear from new writers.

The future holds a blend of ebooks and print. The fact that NY publishers are branching out should tell anyone who pays attention that there is a future there.

In the past few years, I have bought a handful of paperbacks and several hundred ebooks. Probably half of the ebooks are from NY publishing houses. Some of those authors I only discovered because they were available at Fictionwise.

I don’t claim to be the average reader, but I am not alone in my preference for a portable read. And I am obviously not alone in my decision to pursue both print and epublishers after several years of research as to my chosen career. I’m following the best potential income for each story individually.

RWA will best represent “all” of its members when it begins to recognize all of its members, not a perceived majority.


S. Smith

in June 19th, 2009 @ 20:08

I am somewhat curious because I’ve heard several times that NY houses were only paying single digit royalties on ebooks. That is pure greed on a publisher’s part.

Why isn’t RWA up in arms over it if they are supporting their ‘real’ authors? I’d say RWA is falling down on the job for epubbed and trad pubbed authors. Both kinds of authors need to rake RWA over the coals for falling down on the job.


Shelli Stevens

in June 19th, 2009 @ 21:10

I would really like to see RWA do a national survey of the members on who writes for Epubs and who would like more information about them. Because I honestly think the range is much higher then the board seems to think right now.


Sandra

in June 19th, 2009 @ 21:20

Diane’s assertions are precisely the reason I left RWA this year.

Additionally the comment, “although, from the new PAN applications, it doesn’t seem that the “majority” of authors at either publisher is doing as well as Deidre claims” really chaffs me.

RWA’s general attitude is that e-pubbed authors are the red-headed step-child that is being hidden away…I was in PAN and was treated shabily.

What’s more, if e-publishing is so awful, why are the larger houses putting out their books in electronic formats and STILL PAYING 12% on a book that costs next to nothing (it was already edited for print and the artwork is already done…)Where is RWA defending their print authors who have had their books put into this sales channel and str still being pasid such shabby rates?

RWA is nothing but the ‘good ol’ boys network’ in heels.


Lee Rowan

in June 19th, 2009 @ 21:31

RWA is a strong and loyal advocate? Only for those authors who jump through a particular set of hoops, arbitrarily set and about a decade out of date. Your attempt at rebuttal only validates Ms Knight’s assertions.


TJ Michaels

in June 19th, 2009 @ 21:40

I’ve only been published for a few years, and I start what I considered the ’serious’ move to become a published author by joining RWA.

Two years later I let my membership lapse. Why? Because I’d managed to contract nine eBooks by myself – six are in print, two nominated for CAPA awards, two named as recommended reads or winners of reader’s choice awards, and one that was even declared, “Best female lead I’ve read all year,” by a reputable reviewer. So how did RWA help me? It didn’t. I learned by asking other successful authors who had varying experiences with e-pubbing for their advice along with lots of Google searches.

Now I’m glad I used that renewal money to buy an ad to promo one of my books instead.

I started in e-pubbing and plan to continue in e-pubbing. Not to mention that it was because of one of my e-publishers that I received a nice advance for a book released by Pocket Books of NY. If I’d waited for RWA to help me break into Pocket Books (Simon and Schuster) I’d still be waiting. Why? Because e-pubbing made it possible to get that book into Pocket in the first place and, since according to RWA, digital publishing is from hell the *gasp* eBook that Pocket chose to release in print would never had happened.

I was leaning toward rejoining RWA just to participate in my local chapter…but I’ve definitely changed my mind. Instead, I’ll just meet my girls for coffee and talk book stuff over a mocha instead.


PG Forte

in June 19th, 2009 @ 23:54

@ Beth Yarnall you said “I agree that is seems the epub’d authors are going to bat for their publishers with little if any support from the entities they defend. Have any of the epublishers taken up and defended their business practices and lack of author support? If they have and I am unaware, pardon my ignorance.”

If it seems the authors are going to bat for their publishers, perhaps you should ask yourself why that might be the case. Could it be that there is nothing wrong with their business practices? Could it be that they are, in fact, extremely supportive of their authors?

Like most of the epubbed authors I know, I feel I’ve been treated very well by my publishers. Are there authors who are unhappy with their publishers? Undoubtedly. And if those authors had been educated about the differences between publishers, perhaps they might have been able to make a more informed decision.

One of the things I do think you are failing to grasp is that there is nothing wrong with the epublishing business model. It’s just not the same one utilized by traditional publishers. Different does not make it better (although, given how much trouble NY publishing seems to be in these days, I could argue that it is better) and it certainly doesn’t make it worse.

As several people have already explained (much more eloquently than I can) This business model is precisely what allows epublishers to stay in business, to grow, to flourish and to publish books that traditional publishers would be reluctant to take on. If they do not take up RWA’s challenge, it is because it makes no sense for them to do so.

Contrary to what you may believe, there are in fact reputable epublishers out there and I think, on the whole, they’re a lot more ‘author-centric’ than most large, traditional publishers can afford to be.

The publishers I’m signed with treat their authors with respect and professionalism. They promote their authors. They pay them–promptly, on a regular basis and at a royalty rate that is FOUR TIMES what traditional print publishers pay.

You mention that no epublishers had posted to defend their business practices or lack of support. Right off the top of my head I can think of at least four publishers, editorial directors, etc who have posted here this week–if not today. The fact that you are ignorant of this actually proves the point we’ve been arguing here, because this is precisely the sort of information RWA should be providing to its members–yet isn’t.

Epublishing might not be right for you, but even if you never consider going that route, I can’t imagine you would not still find it beneficial to have something factual upon which to base your decision.


Belinda McBride

in June 20th, 2009 @ 01:00

“These deals were with a number of publishers, but I didn’t see one primarily digital publisher on that list. Does she represent any authors who are remaining in the digital format and not moving over to print?”

Ms Pershing, are you aware that it’s not necessary to use an agent to submit to e-publishers? Maybe your 21st century staff neglected to keep you informed.

Aside from that, if an e-pubbed author gets picked up by the Knight Agency, wouldn’t it be a supreme act of silliness to pay an agent to sell a book to a publisher that the author already has a relationship with?

I recently attended my first RWA chapter meeting. It was lovely, the members were all very nice and supportive of me as an a-published author. But of the 40 or so people in the room, only a small number were published at all, perhaps five or six. The rest of the members are paying annual fees though they have yet to be published, or even write a book. Of those, many will never be published, yet they are being better represented by RWA than the author who produces several books a year at a small press or digital publisher.

I admire the fact that RWA represents their interests, but its just weird that I make actual money for the hundreds of thousands of words that I write every year, but my publishing houses are not recognized because they pay me what I actually earn as I earn it. Just because the business model is different doesn’t mean it’s less valid.

Well, my RWA membership form is all filled out and sitting by my computer, I guess I’ll just leave it buried there for now.


Angela Caperton

in June 20th, 2009 @ 03:34

There should definitely be standards for RWA recognition of ePublishers, but requiring an ePublisher to provide $1K advances for works is not the answer. I think a fair analysis of an ePublishers royalties paid to authors should work. Some works will earn more than others, but if the ePublisher is paying out and the authors are happy, then they should qualify. I know that sounds simplistic, but something along those lines should work.

The fact that RWA has given, then taken away, “recognition” to EC, Samhain, Cobblestone and other well established ePubs says more about RWA than about the ePubs.

Let’s face it – RWA is going to lose the ad revenue, workshop fees, table space at conventions, membership dues from those they’ve alienated for the last time, etc. from these publishers that already have a VERY public face. Just because EC can’t slap the “RWA approved” label on their books doesn’t mean people are going to stop buying their books!

ePubs are just going to keep on truckin’, selling books in a venue that RWA national seems to lack the imagination to even try to understand, and will continue to take publishing into the future while paying their authors royalties.

And just wait. The NY Publishers are watching what’s happening in the electronic publishing world. Don’t be a bit surprised if they don’t start following ePub models in regards to author payments, etc. It’s the mousetrap theory. If it works, others will follow.

And then we’ll probably see RWA suddenly reverse their criteria again.

So, on that note, I only have one more thing to stay.

I’m ePublished and proud of it – even if RWA isn’t.

Angela Caperton
Passionate Ink Member


Anna J. Evans

in June 20th, 2009 @ 05:02

The ladies before me have raised a number of excellent points and made the pro-e-publishing argument better than I ever could. So I’ll simply say this:

I’ve achieved your Holy Grail of print publishing, Ms. Pershing, but I will continue to work with my e-publishers. They are professional, talented people and the checks I receive for books placed with Samhain and Ellora’s Cave–a few of which have out-earned the advances I have received for my print books–spend just as well as checks from other sources.

E-publishing helped me advance my craft and gave me an avenue to support myself when I was a single mother. E-publishing has my loyalty. RWA does not.

At this point I’m on the fence as to whether I will rejoin RWA next year. I’ll be hoping for a more enlightened leader.

Anna J. Evans


Katie Reus

in June 20th, 2009 @ 05:12

As secretary of ESPAN, it’s pretty obvious where I stand on RWA’s refusal to move into the digital era and refusal to properly educate its members on epublishing so I’m not going to add any more to this discussion in those regards.

However, @ Beth Yarnell in response to your comment “One other thing- Where were the photos of Diane Pershing’s books, her shameless self promotion sprinkled throughout her letter? Sorry, but I couldn’t resist pointing that out.”

Azteclady seems to be the only other person who noticed this so I’ve just got to ask, why did you feel the need to get personal/nasty toward Deidre? She’s been nothing but professional in all her responses. You’d made your point and then you decided to tack on a nasty insult at the end. I just want to know what you think you could possibly gain by insulting a well known, well respected agent?


Linda Howard

in June 20th, 2009 @ 05:42

Two points: There is no “The Board.” The makeup of the board changes every year, with new people coming on, so any conspiracy is pretty much impossible. Also, “RWA” or “The Board” doesn’t pick the workshops; the Workshop Committee does, and the Board very carefully distances itself from the process so there can’t be a conflict of interest. When I was on the board of directors, other directors at the same time included both erotica and e-published writers. We went over the dilemma time and time again, trying to find solutions, and what seems both simple and obvious from the outside turned out to be full of thorns when we began digging into the details.

We finally settled on the most salient point, which is that, regardless of what decision a writer makes about whether or not to go the e-pub route, overall the business model that pays an advance is the best in the long run for the security of the writer. Note the qualifiers: overall, long run, etc. Some writers may do very well financially with e-pubs, and I wish them all the best, because the more viable e-pubbing becomes the better it is for all writers by providing more outlets and competition. The point has not yet been reached, however, and RWA’s function is not to urge writers to be pioneers. Nor is it RWA’s function to encourage or aid publishers in any way. It’s all about the writer, not the publisher. When it came down to hard numbers (overall, not individual cases) print pubs were generally more stable and provided more opportunity for a solid financial career in writing. If a writer personally decided on an e-pub rather than print, and makes a good living at it, then she made a good decision. I’ll even go out on a limb and say it’s because of her individual talent, rather than the choice of publisher :-) . So good for her.

The current arrangement may not suit everyone personally, but in the real world no organization of 10,000 people can meet that standard. It simply isn’t possible. Not everything in RWA suits me, but the benefits I receive far outweigh the negatives. If that isn’t the same case for someone else, then I completely understand why she would want to leave. Everyone has to make that same judgment call. Yes, the rules change every so often. They have to, because circumstances change. What was okay two years ago is different now. If “now” is untenable and you feel you no longer have a place in RWA, that’s your call and I wish you all the luck and success you desire.


Ashlyn Chase

in June 20th, 2009 @ 06:01

Re: RWA

Wow, somehow I missed all the drama.

I’ll have to go to the ESPAN blog and catch up. This is one of my favorite bits
of nonsense (it makes me laugh) and I don’t hesitate to voice my
opinion–especially if big brother is watching. And I’m a chapter president!

You might think I should be walking a fine line, but for the most part, I don’t.
I’m honest. I speak a language I don’t think RWA understands but should. It’s
called common sense. My chapter members elected me knowing full well I’m
e-pubbed and proud of it. I don’t argue with anyone re: it’s merits or
drawbacks. If they want my opinion I’ll give it–truthfully. If not, that’s fine
too. We have other things to talk about, like the craft.

I don’t tell people where to submit since I don’t know what their experience will be. I can only speak to my own and it’s been much more positive than negative.

I’ve seen my style and voice grow and garner fans. That was a bargaining chip
when landing an agent and negotiating a contract with a mass market publisher.
That couldn’t have happened without epublishing and input from someone other
than my friends and family.

I just want to reassure any of you RWA members who might be afraid to speak up that there’s absolutley no reason not to. If you paid your $75.00 renewal fee you bought your right to tactfully speak your mind.

What can RWA do about my honesty? Kick me out? Fire me as a chapter president?
Nope.

I almost quit 2 years ago, but that’s when I got mad. How dare they deprive me
of the friendships that have become so important to me? Why should I have to
agree with them to gain the benefits of our wonderful fellowship? They say
‘Don’t get mad, get even.’ I’m not the vengeful sort, but I don’t believe it
walking away with my thumb in my mouth. I’d like to reword that saying in a
more positive way. Don’t get mad–get stronger!

NEC-RWA President and proud of ALL our members!!!


Amie Stuart

in June 20th, 2009 @ 06:03

wouldn’t it be a supreme act of silliness to pay an agent to sell a book to a publisher that the author already has a relationship with?

Belinda I left a comment for you on Teddy Pig’s blog. But NO you don’t need an agent to sell to an epub BUT even my own agent offered to look over my epubbing contract if I wanted (without taking her 15%). Deidre might do likewise for her own clients (I don’t know. Just throwing that out there).

My contracts for LSB and Cobblestone are pretty straightforward but I’d bet some, like Samhain since they also do print, might not be (For clarification sake: I’m NOT saying Samhain is dishonest or anything silly like that. I’m only saying, it’s a legal document and having an agent to ask questions about something they’re well versed in isn’t a bad thing).


Stacey Netzel

in June 20th, 2009 @ 06:33

My reason for staying with RWA in this economy (after being laid off from my job) is the same as the vast majority of those who’ve posted here–I love my local chapter. I agree with the idea that an author should be recognized as published if they get paid for their work, no matter the format, no matter the amount. I’m e-published since 2007 and both my novel length books are available in print at Amazon, and available to order through Ingrams and Taylor. The only difference is they are printed as they are ordered. A brilliant concept, considering the world’s attempts to be as ‘green’ as possible and the current troubles of the traditional NY publishers.

“RITA Awards: Contest Rules
Purpose
The purpose of the RWA contests—RITA and Golden Heart—is to promote excellence in the romance genre by recognizing outstanding romance novels, novellas, and manuscripts.”

This is off the RWA website. Wonderful purpose, until RWA added the term ‘mass-produced’ last year AFTER the rules had already been posted and the contest had already received entries. And, after books published by those same publishers had been entered and accepted the year before. I understand some (maybe all?) of the unjustly disqualified entrants received refunds (not stating a fact, just what I heard) but still, what a major slap in the face! If the purpose of the RITA is to recognize outstanding romance, the delivery format of those works should not matter. A good book is a good book, no matter what.

Just because I’ve published with a small press does not mean I am not career focused and it certainly doesn’t mean I don’t have “clear-eyed smarts about the business.” That’s not to say that I don’t welcome more information from RWA about e-publishing, from the people with the experience that qualifes them to present it.

If RWA truly and honestly wants to represent ALL of it’s members, they must listen to what the members are asking for.

From Melissa Blue’s post at 11:20: (“Nope, not denouncing Harper Collins at all, but consider the authors they will be asking to join this initiative—established print authors with reputation and readership.”

If this business model isn’t beneficial for ALL writers, why do you support it when Harper-Collins considers doing business this way? You say it will mostly be established authors. How is that thought process any different than some authors will make money hand over fist e-publishing. Stop contradicting yourself if you want people to side with you, because it just makes you look bad.)

Well said, Melissa! And I loved PJ Forte’s: “One last thought. Did Ms Pershing really mean to compare RWA and SAG? Because, somehow, I doubt SAG would ever seek to ban one of their actors from being nominated for an Oscar simply because the production in question was an independent film.”

I hope every person on the current RWA Industry Changes committee reads the responses to this post and the responses to Deidre’s to see that something definitely needs to be done to equalize the treatment and education of RWA’s members.


Ally Blue

in June 20th, 2009 @ 06:44

@ Linda Howard: “When it came down to hard numbers (overall, not individual cases) print pubs were generally more stable and provided more opportunity for a solid financial career in writing.”

My gut says this statement could possibly be argued, but that’s not really the point. The point is, epublishing is here, and it’s not going away. It’s only going to grow, and become an even more solid alternative to traditional print publishing. Authors need information and education about what to look for in an epub contract, what the red flags are, what’s an acceptable royalty rate (and let me tell you, 6-12% is NOT acceptable), etc etc. As an advocate for its members, RWA should provide that education. THAT is the point.


D. Renee Bagby

in June 20th, 2009 @ 06:52

Liz Pelletier, Deirdre Knight, and Vivi Anna have got it right (sorry if I missed anyone who voiced the same, I’m skimming). ePub shouldn’t have to live up to the standards of NY-pub. They are NOT the same animal. ePub takes chances and offers stories that NY wouldn’t touch with a ten-foot-pool because of the “market”.

GLBT has a market. A HUGE market and finally they have representation in romance. Polyamory has a following and now they have representation. There are families who are not “the norm” and I’m glad to be a part of an entity that finally gives them romantic fiction with which they can relate. Heck, I started writing just so I could see a black heroine get whisked away by aliens or fall through time or end up with the Duke after being kidnapped by the handsome pirate. Way back when, all I knew was NY (my local library was a god send) and they weren’t delivering what I wanted though I’m not complaining about what I did get since I love my favorites and still re-read those books to this day.

Way back when (point of reference), internet was a luxury, broadband was new, I had to have three lines in the house so my roommate and I could dial-up at the same time. I didn’t even know such thing as an ebook existed, let alone that the stories I wanted to read were being published. Though I’m glad I didn’t know or I might not have tried writing my own.

I want RWA to keep the standards they have. In fact, raise the bar. Why stop at $1000? Let it be $2000 or $3000. I’d like to see how many NY-pubs would still qualify with the economy being the way it is.

BUT (don’t leave yet, I’m going somewhere I swear), like I said Liz Pelletier, Deirdre Knight, and Vivi Anna got it right. For those who asked for a solution that would work, they gave one. ePubs are a different animal that works differently than NY so give them DIFFERENT STANDARDS. Let those epubs that have proven themselves to be successful and that have stood the test of time be the standard for which all others are judged:

1 – Royalties paid monthly (since that is one of the major reasons everyone likes being epubbed)
2 – (as Liz said) 80% of the contracted (yes we sign contracts) authors showing X amount of royalties earned from one title after X number months of publication
3 – Contracts that offer a specific royalty rate, between X% and X%.
(fill in the X’s with what you think is fair)

Also, from my understanding, RWA has a list of requirements for listing a “non-Subsidy, non-Vanity Publisher” on their site (I’d love to know what that list entails since they don’t list it on the site — if I’m wrong please point me to the page, I’m curious). Keep those requirements and add them to the ones listed above.

There! That should more than weed out all those fly-by-night epubs. RWA would be confident in knowing that those epubs they list are reputable. And it’s no more of a hassle (please don’t let that be an excuse someone pulls out of their butt) than what they go through for NY and agents.

It would be telling if RWA shoots down that suggestion… if President Pershing is even reading these comments. Perhaps someone should draft the proposal and send it to RWA formally just so it doesn’t get lost in the shuffle.

(Sidenote – Just so we’re clear, I don’t think small press should be held to the same standards as NY either, but that’s a whole different conversation.)


April Morelock

in June 20th, 2009 @ 06:57

I’ve just read Deidre Knights response and am in total awe of you, Deidre. Excellent response. Well thought out and to the point.

It’s too bad our leadership doesn’t have your common-sense.

April Morelock


Kelly Jamieson

in June 20th, 2009 @ 07:05

This has been mentioned in other posts (thank you everyone who has responded to this and drawn attention to the issues) but I think it bears repeating:

An advance is not necessary with epublishing. I don’t know for sure but I imagine that an advance paid to authors came about because of the long delay between when a contract is signed and a print book actually hits the shelves and starts earning money – a way for the author to live and continue to write until that income arrived. We all know the delays inherent to the system.

The time frame from when a contract is signed to when a DIGITAl book is released is MUCH shorter. That is how the model works. If you understand that you can accept that yes, it’s different, but it works. This concept seems very difficult for some people to get their head around.


PG Forte

in June 20th, 2009 @ 07:15

@ Linda Howard You said “When it came down to hard numbers (overall, not individual cases) print pubs were generally more stable and provided more opportunity for a solid financial career in writing.”

The point really isn’t which business model any of us chooses–it’s about not having our career decisions denigrated by those who choose another path. No one’s expecting RWA to urge anyone to be a pioneer…that would really be too much to hope for wouldn’t it? But that doesn’t mean they have to dismiss those of us who seek out a different way as non-career focused.

RWA should still be educating its members about this growing market–yes, by all means, tell us about the pros and the cons–but educate us just the same. And please stop dismissing us as gullible hobbyists just because our careers aren’t what you wish for yourself.


Aileen Fish

in June 20th, 2009 @ 07:25

Linda Howard,

Where was it shown here that the the traditional advance is better overall in the long run? The figures I have seen quoted show the opposite. Perhaps for the leading print authors yours is the case, but for midlist authors it would seem they will make more in the long run through epublishing.

I am writing a series I intended to send to a traditional publisher, but after seeing the figures for overall sales potential and what percentage I stand to make on digital copies there, I am rethinking this. I love writing but am in this for the money. 20% or more in royalties could make the difference in success or failure in my plan to be able to quit my day job.


Linda Rettstatt

in June 20th, 2009 @ 07:56

Here’s the thing, as I see it. RWA has a right to set its own guidelines for membership. And I have a right to choose not to pay RWA money to be a part of its membership. I don’t like what RWA is espousing. I feel excluded, and it cheapens me to give money to an organization that makes me feel ‘less than’. I think if RWA wants to maintain its integrity, it should not accept membership dues from authors who don’t meet the criteria. But they can’t have it both ways.

I wrote and had published my first four novels (with a reputable, royalty-paying e-pub) without RWA membership or sanction. To be honest, I wrote those books without an awareness that RWA even existed. I have three more novels contracted for release in the coming year with my original publisher and one other (one that is on RWA’s sacrosanct ‘recognized’ list.) And not belonging to RWA will not stop me from writing or publishing. As an organization, I’m sure RWA does some good for some of its members. And some local chapters are great. I got a lot out of one chapter conference last year. But it’s not enough for me to pay to be listed as a ‘member’ to have access to those things and, yet, be looked upon as ‘less than a member’ by the powers that govern and make the policy (and happily accept my check). It isn’t all about the money for me and, yet, RWA has made it about money—the argument that receiving a minimum $1,000 advance from the publisher proves ones ability and worth as an author. No it doesn’t. I could give my cat a saxophone, but that doesn’t make her a musician. Good writing proves ones ability and worth as an author. This isn’t about ‘the digital model’ of publishing, as I see it. It’s about RWA drawing a line in the sand and using mainly dollars earned to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I’ve heard others who have said you can better change an organization from the inside out. To them I say, “Have at it.” If you slam your head against a brick wall long enough, you may succeed in cracking the wall before your skull gives way. Or you may not. By my choice to not renew my RWA membership, I’m not taking my toys and going home mad. I’m simply putting my energy into something that is more productive for me. Writing. I’ve never enjoyed a tug of war, so I’m letting go of the rope.

I’m not going to shrivel up and die as a writer just because RWA doesn’t like my choice of publishers and I choose to no longer be a member of their group. It’s not going to change my life a whole lot, one way or the other. Except I now have $85 to spend on something else. Maybe I’ll restock my e-book library!

Linda Rettstatt


jim duncan

in June 20th, 2009 @ 08:01

Calls for change is a great idea. There’s a problem going on that needs to be addressed. Organizing is good. Needs to happen if any changes are going to be addressed. I agree that this issue needs to be dealt with. However, what is the goal here? It’s not awareness. This issue has been going on for a while now within RWA. I’m not really privvy to all the history and ins and outs of this ongoing problem. But what is the goal? What are folks wanting to organize to do? Is it to dump the advance clause? Change the publisher recognition standards so epubs can be considered equal?

This needs to be directed at RWA membership. They’re the ones who agreed to a monetary standard in the first place. A few hundred epubbed folks shouting for change isn’t going to accomplish much. A sizeable chunk of the membership has to be making the same demands for change. So what exactly is the proposed change? Is there a definitive place to refer members to say, “Look here. This is what we want to change and why.” Just being loud and proud won’t accomplish anything.

More importantly, what will the changes mean? How will RWA change if these proposals are accepted? And most of all, how would these changes be implemented? I don’t know all the ins and outs of things like the RITA’s and all that, but can RWA currently handle a massive flood of newly recognized authors and their novels? Calling for a change that will overwhelm the current system won’t do much good either, so what are the logistics of this call for change?

These things need to be articulated folks if you want success. Intelligent, civil, well thought out discourse needs to ensue. Make this proposed change clear and obvious as to what, why, and how. If you don’t, members aren’t not going to jump on board, and it will fail. Period.


Gia Dawn

in June 20th, 2009 @ 08:31

“I’m not alone in this thinking. AAR, NINC and other publishing organizations all realize the importance of digital opportunities and future.”

Actually NINC has the same policies as RWA National–see below directly from their website.

The publisher pays a minimum advance against royalties of at least $1,000 for every book it publishes.

The publisher maintains a print run and distribution of 1,000 or more copies of every title it publishes.

There is still a long way to go in many organizations.


Sandra Kay

in June 20th, 2009 @ 08:55

Thank you, Kristen, for giving us the statements by both Deidre Knight and Diane Pershing. I belonged to the same local RWA chapter as Diane, and always liked and admired her. My issues are not directed at Diane personally, but at RWA’s stance.

Each time the subject of digitally published vs traditionally published arises, RWA’s tone is insulting to those of us who have chosen to go the epub route. Like most of you, I paid my RWA dues, participated in fundraising events, served on the Board of Directors for my local chapter, attended the National Conference, and supported RWA in every way possible. In return, I am considered “less” than published because of my choice to go with a “small publishing house.”

I love my publisher, The Wild Rose Press. I love my editor, who has taught me so much. I am in the process of submitting a sequel to her. I have just submitted a short story to Samhain. I, also, pitched a different book to 3 publishers at a small conference I attended, and have submitted a ms to them–NAL, St. Martin’s Press, and Mira. At the same time I market continuously.

As you can see, Diane, I am working my business. Why shouldn’t RWA support me when I have supported them for so many years?

Yes, all the words are there. But, to me, instead of addressing the point of view of a good portion of RWA’s membership, the statement is “politics speak”–a lot of words, with little substance. I received the same type of letter when I questioned why I could not enter the RITA.

Although I enjoyed my local chapter and most of the members, I did not renew my membership this year in RWA. Hopefully they will come around and support all authors in the future.


Margaret L. Carter

in June 20th, 2009 @ 08:59

I haven’t yet read all the comments, so forgive me if this point has already been brought up: Even if RWA’s contention that financially successful careers in e-publishing are rare were accurate, I don’t understand their implicit assumption that remaining unpublished is better than being published by an e-publisher. Surely *some* income and name recognition are better than none at all? There is also the point that an e-pubbed author builds up a backlist that remains available forever, whereas print books eventually go out of print, becoming available only in the used-book market, where the author gets no income. When that e-pubbed author finally “breaks out,” her backlist is still there to be promoted to new readers and earn a fresh wave of royalties.

As for the assumption that any book published by an e-pub or micro-press has “failed” to get acceptance from a major print publisher, does anyone seriously believe all the books accepted by mass market houses are better than all the books rejected? There are many more submissions than available slots, and it seems obvious that many books equally good as the published ones must be rejected for marketing reasons unrelated to writing quality. (It reminds me of the naive assumption — I actually once heard this from my mother, so I’m not making it up — that the 50 women who compete in the final round of the Miss America contest are literally the “most beautiful” women in the country.)


Tina Burns

in June 20th, 2009 @ 09:04

197 comments and counting, I’m not sure if a post from a little ol’ epublisher is going to make a difference. But both Mrs. Pershing and @BethYarnell threw down so I feel I must respond.

In all honesty, this kept me up last night, and I’m not sure why. RWA does nothing for me as a publisher. It’s an AUTHOR organization. One I’ve hoped would progress over the years as publishing itself has, but I don’t see that happening.

First, let me address @BethYarnell who asked why there were no epublishers defending/supporting their authors or themselves. Personally, I didn’t feel the need. My authors who posted have done so with clear, and concise writing and I think made their points. I’m honored that they are supportive enough of their choice in publishing to speak up. To say that because their publishers haven’t chosen to join the fray says we don’t support them, is ridiculous. I haven’t piped up in defense because I don’t agree. Many people have brought up parallel industries to compare the print and epub business models, so I don’t need to rehash that. We are different. We’re still a legitimate business with legitimate career-oriented authors. My authors know I support them, I show them daily, I don’t need to spout rebuttal here to prove to them that I value them.

Re: the advance policy = recognized publisher.

Let’s just agree to disagree on the business model. That being the case, what would offering $1000 advance to authors do to us as a business? We’d have fewer acceptances which in turn means fewer authors, which in turn means fewer sales, which in turn could eventually lead us down the financial ruin road, which in turn would leave our authors in the dust… Yeah, I think we’ll stick with our current set up thank you. That’s uber-simplified, but I think clear enough.

We’re proud of our quality, our support to our authors, and our authors themselves. MANY of whom are NY published authors as well. I won’t name names because that’s not who I am. We’ve received 100% author satisfaction based on unbiased polling of authors. Can you say the same RWA?

Tina Burns
Publisher
Liquid Silver Books


Jeannie Ruesch

in June 20th, 2009 @ 09:21

RWA Members, are you interested in seeing RWA Change? Get involved with us:

please consider taking this survey:
http://bit.ly/jaWGr

A portion fo the RWA membership is trying to gauge information on this section of the RWA membership — and we need ALL the information we can get.

FOr more information on what this is about, follow on twitter: #rwachange or #rwafail or join this yahoo group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RWAchange/


Eva

in June 20th, 2009 @ 09:51

Hopping back on to thank Publisher Tina Burns from Liquid Silver for commenting. I know it’s not your fight, but any help in dispelling inaccuracies surrounding e-publishing is so very welcome.

To all, If you want to be a part of a group trying to change RWA, please join the new yahoo group RWAchange at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RWAchange/


Barb Webb

in June 20th, 2009 @ 10:14

Dear Ms. Pershing,

I respectfully disagree that RWA is “ensconced in the 21st century.” What market are you studying, what journals are you reading that are missing the boat on the digital revolution? Your “reliable, factual information” is lacking if you are not in step with progress.

Business, communications in particular, is constantly changing. A forward-thinking, successful organization in today’s world understands this and chooses to keep pace, not to dismiss as “time will tell.”

As a journalist, it pains me see newspapers and magazines folding under the direct weight of their online competitors, to see universities closing their Journalism programs in lieu of Mass Media tracks, but that’s evolution. We live in a society where new technologies make the old obsolete overnight.

Despite my pains, I must adapt and adapt rather quickly. Thank goodness for organizations like ONA and SPJ who do not wait for time to tell them to respond to the current needs/wants of the industry we serve.

Perhaps RWA should consult them regarding their business models and how they manage to keep up with the times and provide members with all the knowledge, training, and timely information they need to make wise decisions regarding their writing careers.

To suggest that RWA should not address the digital revolution because “E-published authors are only one segment of RWA’s 10,000-member population ” is a ridiculous stance for an organization of this caliber to take.

Exactly how many members does a particular technology have to affect before RWA offers any type of support or quality information? How many $85 dues from electronically published authors do you collect before you have enough capital to recognize them as members worthy of your support and guidance?

And I say this all tongue-in-cheek, of course, because of the “10,000″ members in RWA, which one has not been electronically published? How many have websites, blogs, online articles, partake in Facebook or other online forums, publish electronic short stories or columns, or contribute any content that is accessible on the Internet. Ms. Pershing, any such member who meets the criteria above is electronically published. And RWA should be addressing all aspects of electronic publishing — in other words keeping up with the times, not waiting for “time will tell.”

It is saddening that RWA National continues to waffle and ignore electronic media in all aspects of the organization. The consistent message that electronic media “doesn’t matter” is also prevalent in RWA’s “blind-eye” treatment of online chapter. Three years in a row, as President and Vice-President of FTHRW (RWA online chapter #177) I attended the Presidents Retreat. A lovely affair but completely off-track and “unfriendly” to online chapters. Despite feedback from numerous online chapter Presidents, RWA still continues to offer no business model, best practice information, or tailored inclusion for online chapters. We are quite different than land chapters and great in number, but I guess we are just not a big enough segment of the 10,000 to warrant RWA’s attention.

Please stop defending what “was” and re-allocate your energy to embracing what “is.”

A serious professional pursuing a career in the Romance genre (or any genre for that matter) should be educated on all aspects of the industry, not just those you choose to acknowledge. If it is an organization for the people, then address all the people.

I am a Communications expert, particularly savvy with electronic media, have had both good and quite negatives experiences with traditional publishing and electronic publishing (yes in the Romance genre, too) and I’d be happy to discuss and educate in an unbiased fashion.

I’m conducting an online class for the Colorado Romance Writers in July: http://www.coloradoromancewriters.org/ that partially focuses on a wealth of alternative electronic media outlets available to romance writers (any writer) may use to supplement their writing income and increase their exposure. Stop by, I be happy to share some market information and help expose you to the current, developing structures of the publishing world.

Lastly, but certainly not least, I do thank you for the time and effort you have put in to helping RWA as an organization. I know volunteer positions are often thankless and your time and efforts are appreciated. I just hope that you and the other staff members at the National level choose to refocus your time and efforts a bit to include the whole of the organization and the realities of today’s technologies.

Best Regards,
Barb Webb


Chrissy

in June 20th, 2009 @ 10:16

Every time I see or hear anything about RWA “educating” its members I get sick to my stomach. The leadership is the problem, not the membership. And the snooty “we haven’t lost many people” attitude will continue until the ranks are empty.

Which is the real crime. Change is the constant promise, but it’s been promised for YEARS.

Show; don’t tell.


Lauren Dane

in June 20th, 2009 @ 10:40

Brenna, yes, Spice DOES pay authors 1K for Briefs. I can’t speak for all authors or all contracts. But I can say that I know several authors who write briefs and yes, they DO get an advance of at least 1K for them.


Brenna Lyons

in June 20th, 2009 @ 10:47

Lauren,

Then that is a change since the last time I looked at their guidelines. Actually…they don’t mention it in the current guidelines. I just went and checked. I have them on bookmark. Thanks for the update.

B


Barbara J. Hancock

in June 20th, 2009 @ 10:58

Though there have been many wonderful ideas and opinions expressed on this thread in response to Pershing, there’s one thing that seems to be missing in our arguments for RWA to step up and step out into the 21st century.

We are quickly approaching a point when *all* published authors will be e-published. Someone mentioned Pershing wrote for Harlequin. Harlequin now publishes *all* their books as e-books. Not to mention the novellas they are publishing as e-books, first and foremost. If Harlequin is embracing electronic publishing, surely it’s time for RWA to do the same?

All the members of RWA, even those members published in print, have a vital interest in staying on top of the digital market. Progress, it would seem, has finally de-marginalized e-publishing even though RWA has not!

As we seek to improve RWA’s policies regarding e-published authors, let us remember that we will *all* be e-published authors, sooner or later!


Rebecca J Clark

in June 20th, 2009 @ 10:58

Ms. Pershing, I appreciate your thoughtful response. It’s helpful to have both sides of a story. As a soon-to-be published author with a small press, here’s my beef with RWA. I have no problem with the PAN requirement of $1000 advance or from royalties. That gives me something to shoot for and is a great motivation to promote myself and my books. But until I reach that milestone, please let authors like me enter the Golden Heart, rather than leaving us in no-man’s land of no GH/no RITA/no PAN.

Thanks for listening.

Becky


Arwen

in June 20th, 2009 @ 11:24

So many have said what is the change we would like to see.

Here is what I would like to see the board of RWA tackle.

1. Examination and contrast of digital publishing contracts vs print contracts
2. Education on how to determine a publisher who is on the up-and-up (digital and print)
3. Admitting that published is published (I’ll stand on the no-vanity
press statement though)
4. Admitting that the digital publishing model is not the print
publishing model and really laying out how those are different
5. Stop changing the rules every blessed year. Either allow digital published authors to enter the GH or the Ritas but don’t leave us out in the cold
7. Allow digital publishers at National in the same way as they do print publishers
8. Have a digital publishing track for workshops at the national conference

Like it or not, digital publishing is here to stay. As the premier voice of romance writers RWA must look to the future rather than remain cemented in the past.

I will not leave RWA. Instead, I will dig my heels in and continue to negotiate for change. I will not cave into the “let the door hit you” demands of those who refuse to see the handwriting on the wall.

So consider this a call to everyone in RWA to educate yourselves on digital publishing. Do not think this is about e-publishing vs print publishing. This is much bigger than that.

Every major house has added some form of digital publishing arm or has one in the works. If you think you are not affected, you will be. You will not have a voice to help you negotiate your contracts because the board of RWA refused to see the very large train in this tunnel vision of theirs.

Stephanie Arwen Lynch
Member #48886
Also member of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rwachange

If you want to help make this issue heard, join.


Lise Horton

in June 20th, 2009 @ 11:33

The worst aspect of this entire issue is not the apparent fact that Ms. Pershing doesn’t seem to get the realities of the publishing industry, nor is it her attempts to exclude certain members from what we are all paying for, or perhaps just a mean-spirited attempt to keep the pond little so she can feel like a bigger fish. No. It is the condescending, patronizing, insulting tone of all of the Presidential communications from the monthly RWR President’s letter to this rebuttal post. Hold any opinion you want, but don’t talk down to me. I’m self-educated about this industry (because RWA gave me no choice) and I’m an intelligent woman. I don’t need to be dicated to or protected.

Do you go to your doctor and accept from him or her: “Don’t worry your pretty little head about that, Diane, just let us take care of you.” ? Did you pick that doctor because you like the color he painted his office or how pretty his receptionist was, or because he’ll be giving you the best medical care you can get when you need it? And if I told you NOT to go to the doctor of your choice, because I, in my infinite wisdom, knew better than you about these things, would you blithely accept that? I should hope not because the way you pick your doctor is your business. IBID your publisher.

According to this week’s Publishers Weekly:

AAP April Sales Report:

Adult Hard -11.0% (April) -16.2% (YTD)
Mass Market – 4.0% (April) – 10.2 % (YTD)
Electronic +228.3% (April) +154.8% (YTD)

Wake up and smell the virtual coffee, President Pershing.

Oh, and by the way, that SAG actor who didn’t get back-end participation like Brad Pitt? He didn’t get nothing. He got at least the guaranteed SAG minimum for his performance category, including pension & welfare and health benefits and credit befitting his role in the film.

And a personal question for you, Diane. Can I call you Diane? I feel like I know you, after all – regarding this whole “career focused” standard you are hawking – does the fact that you are dividing your efforts between writing HQ books and doing voice-over work mean you are not “career focused” on being a romance author? What percentage of one’s day must be dedicated in order to qualify as “career focused”? How many dollars earned in a non-writing capacity disqualify me? What word output per day means I’m serious? We already know the dollar milestone that is required in order to meet your standard of “recognition”.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised to hear you’ll be sharing The Word According To Diane Pershing in July at National as to what, exactly qualifies each of us as “career focused”.


Rae Monet

in June 20th, 2009 @ 11:48

Dear Ms. Pershing,

As with everything RWA has done lately, yourself included, your response reassures me that my decision NOT TO RENEW my RWA membership, is a sound one (I’ve been a member since 1998). You absolutely make no sense, the changes RWA has instituted in the last five years, MAKE NO SENSE. In a sinking economy, RWA’s decision to increase dues and change rules to make it more difficult for small press authors to enter the RITA’s and small-medium press publishers to gain RWA status, MAKES NO SENSE. I’m angered by the constant drive to push small press, e-published authors out of your organization and only accept the elite few (who you say are over 10,000, please, DO A SURVEY, GET REAL).

If you would like to test how many people really find value in the National RWA organization, allow them to join their local RWA without membership in the National RWA. I bet you’d see a mass exodus in your organization. Consider that!

I agree 200% with Deidre Knight’s post and think your response was childish and unprofessional.

I’m going to follow a few links for making and difference and see if I can do so. Thanks to those who provided them.


Bailey S.

in June 20th, 2009 @ 11:51

“Why would an organization that advocates for authors’ careers encourage its members to relinquish rights without minimum compensation?”
Here’s another question: why would anyone want to be part of an organization that will accept a publisher but then disqualify them from full participation (workshops) based on X-number of advance dollars given out? Seems more sincere to say upfront, “NO, NO, NO, you can’t joint” than accept $$$ in membership fees from an e-publisher and then start disqualifying them from events. Or could it be that the sincere truth is that RWA is NOT here for authors OR the industry but for that MONEY? I’m not a publisher or an author but a reader, and I have to tell you, from where I am sitting it looks like RWA isn’t any better than some of the fly-by-night digital publishers that have taken advantage of others.


Eva

in June 20th, 2009 @ 12:29

Popping back on to request that all posters please be civil. I really don’t want to have to moderate comments. We all at ESPAN are thankful for your comments, but none of us really have the time to be a mod. Yes, Ms. Pershing is the Pres of RWA, but she alone is not responsible for the decisions of the organization.


Koko Brown

in June 20th, 2009 @ 12:38

Ms. Pershing’s response is about as obtuse as many of the decisions RWA has handed down over the years.

The thing that kills me is her insistance that RWA is looking out for all of its members, but then consistantly change the rules in order to further prohibit the growth of said members even if a minute number.

Case in point, I re-joined RWA right before they handed down the $1,000 advance stipulation. Happily, I hurdled that obstacle (almost twice over) in the first 8 days of sales for my debut short novel.

But even though I met PAN’s requirements, I couldn’t enter the same book into the RITA because it wasn’t distributed in print, thus all of my samples, which my publisher so graciously printed up for me and several others, were sent back. And now this year, we couldn’t submit books distributed and sold in print because they were’nt mass marketed.

With this malignant reasoning, its no wonder RWA only receives PAN applications from the NY sector because they are aren’t discriminated against. But considering the short sightedness of Ms. Pershing’s glasses, I’m not surprised she didn’t pick up on this.

If only RWA would really act like the professional organization they proclaim to be and spend as much energy in more worthwhile and conducive efforts (i.e, internet piracy, education, and advocacy) rather than consistantly pigeonholing a segment of their constituency. Then and only then would they carry the weight they so rightfully deserve.

Yes, RWA sends out press releases and tells us to send cease or desist letters to online pirates. But wouldn’t it be more effective to ask your members to compile a list of their books on a particular site and send them to a lawyer you have on retainer, Ms. Pershing? Thank goodness Sen. Bobby Kennedy handed over Mildred’s Loving’s letter to an ACLU lawyer or I wouldn’t have found a market that embraces my stories featuring interracial couples.

How about you educate us rather than depend on the individual chapters. Why not sponsor a series of online courses or an informal writer’s retreat? Instead of killing trees and wasting money on a monthly publication that seems to regurgitate the same old thing I learned 12 months ago from Publisher’s weekly or Dear Author.

Or how about being an advocate for your members whose books (ie, African American and Erotica) are consistantly segregated from what is considered mainstream romances by booksellers.

But no, you and RWA have more important things to do…living in the past.

If I think it would do any good (and not a total waste of my time), I would bless your email twice a month, a la Yan Martel, with hundreds of ebooks I’ve purchased over the years. Of course they would be repurchased just for you, since sending you a copy from my collection would undermine my fellow author’s hard earned careers.

Like Martel, I would point out how all of the choices touched me as a reader, helped me to find my voice in a relationship, paved the way for my own writing career and made me forget life and its insidious circumtances for just an hour. Who knows, I just might everyone should curl up with a good book:)

But since RWA is more concerned with profit and not personal satisfaction, I would suggest practicing a little less intolerance and a lot more professionalism. If you did, then your membership numbers would double thus lining your coffers because I’m acquainted with more writers who AREN’T members of RWA than are….

Koko Brown


Teresa D'Amario

in June 20th, 2009 @ 12:48

There’s alot of great comments here, (Maya, you had me cracking up) and I have tried to figure out why RWA is so adamantly against e-publishing. What does RWA get out of keeping down so many quality authors? (As contrary to their words, by denouncing epublishing that’s exactly what they are doing. You can only insult people so many times before they either explode or depart. right now is the explosion. How many will depart?)

Marcia, you go girl! Melissa, you too! Great responses from wonderful authors… And wait, isn’t Marcia both epub and print? Or am I missing something here?

Someone else posted the only reason I could come up with – Killing the competition to NY publishers. I kept coming back to “what’s in it for RWA?” For the last few weeks, I kept trying to figure out why.. why does RWA hate epublishing?

It’s not prestige, because prestige would have them educating and trying to snag the top epub’d authors as fast as they could, putting them on the front page of the $85.00 magazine with the headline *THE INFORMATION AGE HAS REACHED THE ROMANCE WORLD”

It’s not lack of knowledge – I have a strange feeling that yes, alot of research has been done on this topic by the board.

Just how long have we been in this information age anyway? 15 years? I know I went to Germany and people were just buying computers (1992). Came back in 1994 to a complete different world. The internet had exploded. I had to ask my co worker, “what’s this http crap they keep mentioning on commercials?” He thought I’d lost my mind. While I’d been in Germany, serving my nation, the nation changed. I was behind. I had to catch up.

on 1 January 1995 I wrote my first web page, which later showed up in the NY times for a first of it’s kind. I learned. I studied. I adapted.

So no, it’s not a lack of education/knowledge. Our world has changed, at probably its fastest rate ever. Even my Mother (bless her heart, she just had hip replacement surgery and I am at her house watching her) has internet access, complete with email. If she can read email, and respond, then surely women such as our board have educated themselves on the in’s and out’s of epublishing.

It’s because they worry about the author. Oops, that can’t be true, since we were as much as told the membership does not matter – we can all complain till we are blue in the face, and our fingers are bloody, but our opinion does not matter.

So what is left?

Money.

Money speaks volumes. But what does RWA get out of shoving epub authors out the door? They lose money.

Makes me wonder how they are replacing said dollars. I guess I’ll leave that thought process where it is, without going deeper… because that’s just ugly thinking. I don’t like to do ugly thinking at this stage of my career.

But, I challenge RWA to prove me wrong. It’s easy actually. Simply do an online “vote”. People must use their RWA numbers to vote. No proxy. No “we can’t discuss”. Open this up to the membership. then if the membership says “Get lost”, maybe then we epub folks will do so.

Here’s all you have to do – go to your webmaster/mistress. Have her setup the voting. Open a mailing list/yahoo group (does anyone besides me despise yahoo groups) to enable discussion. Heck, if you want, I’ll be happy to moderate it, to ensure it stays just as professional as these posts have been, as the only snide remarks I saw came from Ms. Pershing.

Set the date for the vote at the end of August. use the conference to chat it up. That also gives you time to discuss it in the magazine we pay so dearly for.

Then, on the “Fateful week” chosen for voting, watch the votes come in. Do we change the rules for acceptance of RWA publishers to adjust the 1K advance to an either/or and include a more advanced method to include years active, dollar amount made, percentage of royalties paid”?

Let the membership vote and count the votes. Heck, I might even believe RWA if they say the vote goes “down” for us. But then again, I kind of think an unbiased vote counting organization might be needed (Don’t call at&t, as they might teach some people to vote and not others, like they did for American Idol).

Then, surprise surprise, we have a majority rules vote. A democratic answer.

I have set these suggestions with a “light, tongue in cheek” attitude, but I can’t imagine something more serious the RWA needs to address, except maybe the royalties paid to authors on print books. MY GOD, that’s horrid! All that work for PEANUTS!!!

On another note, I’m going to conference this year. This conference will determine for me if I say or go from RWA. I want to pub NY. I also pub epub. But if RWA is too busy slapping my hand for epub’ing, I may decide I don’t need RWA any longer. Hmm I’ll see. Or.. I may be moving to texas. Maybe I should consider running for the board. What are the requirements, does anyone know? course you probably have to be published, and that leaves me out,,, despite the print book I have on shelves. B&N told me I was one of their most successful signings in our area for a small press author. Hmmm, Sold more books than most.. at 24 in 3 hrs. Not bad, eh? especially since I’m not pub’d.

I love ebooks. I have had my kindle for 3 months and it broke yesterday. I cried. Thank heaven it’s being replaced by amazon. I’ve read (and written) more since I got my kindle than I had in years. I read 45 books in 30 days. (yes, I read fast). Not just amazon purchased books, but all books. I was thrilled to discover samhain books are avail in kindle format at amazon! Woohoo! Makes my day!

BTW, of those who are doing the supposed “underground” epub stuff at conference, does anyone know if they are taking editor appointments “underground?? wouldn’t that be an awesome thing to do? Probably too late to plan something like that though. And what’s the date?

Nothing against the agent/editor appt I already have scheduled, but I have one piece I want NY, and one piece I want epub. would be great to come back feeling good about both. :) (and another piece is already scheduled for a small press)

Hmm, does that make me a legitimate, career-minded author now?


Maggie Jaimeson

in June 20th, 2009 @ 12:58

Hmmm…I have to say emotions are high. IMO I think Diane did a very good job of representing the RWA stance, and I happen to agree that RWA needs to have standards. I also thank Linda Howard for pointing out that no one person is The Board and to paint everyone with one brush is inaccurate. I also 100% believe her when she said this has been an ongoing discussion and a very hard decision. As I indicated in a previous post, I personally know three Board members and they have frequently talked about the difficulty of these discussions and the decision-making process. I don’t think any one of them are doing it to “protect the NY pubs” or because they think that epubbed authors are less than print authors.

It seems that many posters here believe that because epubs don’t pay the $1,000 advance that translates to RWA saying they are bad, unwanted, name your denigrating word choice. I don’t think RWA has said that at all. I did not read any judgment into Diane’s response. Her response only indicated that the standards were an advance and that e pubs don’t pay them.

Some posters here also seem to feel that because the standards don’t “recognize” epubs for free workshops or floor space, that the message is then that anyone who is epubbed is unpubbed or less than everyone else. Again, I didn’t see that written anywhere in Diane’s response. In fact, quite the opposite. Many epubbed authors have become PAN members once they earned $1,000 or more on their book.

It seems that some people want the organization to simply recognize (I assume that means PAN membership) anyone who is published by a non-subsidy/non-vanity publisher no matter what amount of money they make–$10, $100. I have to say a strongly disagree with that sentiment. If you are writing for the sole purpose of being published without care as to earnings, then I wonder why it is at all important to you to be recognized by anyone? RWA or otherwise? There are other organizations (EPIC being one) who do recognize this. I like that RWA is standing up for me with publishers and is providing a standard for me to achieve.

IMO the problem is that RWA, unlike any other national writers organization, allows both unpublished and published members to be part of it. In this way RWA is unique. Mystery Writers, Science Fiction Writers, Thriller Writers–none of them allow unpublished members into the organization. RWA does this because they wish to assist Romance Writers in the craft. Unfortunately, it appears that in doing so — and in attempting to meet the needs of different types of writers through designating an unpublished ranking like PRO and having a contest like the GH — that people take it personally when they aren’t “recognized” at some level. I say again there must be standards. I’ve published 5 non-fiction books and made tens of thousands of dollars on them, yet I’m not bucking to be recognized by RWA as published because I know the rules and am working to achieve them. I’ve published short stories and made over a thousand dollars on them, but I’m not bucking to be recognized as PAN because I know the rules and knew them when I joined.

Personally, I think RWA does a marvelous job helping to educate unpublished writers in the craft. I think they provide boundless opportunities to learn both through the national conference, and through the chapter system which provides an opportunity for people to make local decisions and have local conferences that meet the immediate needs of their membership. Many here have commented on how much they love their local chapters.

What you need to ask yourself is how much does RWA need to bend at the national level on the “published” author and “recognized” publisher level? I can tell you that the three national organizations mentioned above also have rules for membership. Each one requires a certain amount of earnings for membership. Each one requires a certain level of publisher commitment to be a “recognized” publisher. In Mystery Writers the publisher must be Edgar qualified. In SFWA the publisher must pay a certain amount either by the word or by advance of $2,000. In Thriller Writers the publisher must be a commercial publisher. I don’t know what the earnings requirement is but I’m certain it is not less than $1,000.

I agree with whoever commented that if a publisher can show that 80% (or even 50%) of their authors are earning out at $1,000 or more they should be recognized. I am wondering, however, if any epub can say that. As Angela and Tina have already indicated, their model is to take more risks because in epublishing you don’t have to sell enough to make $1,000 to make a profit as a publisher. Yes, many authors make $1,000 or more on a book and they are eligible for PAN. However, I wonder if 80% earn out at that? I don’t think so. How about 50%?

That is not to say that the business model is bad, or that it doesn’t work–obviously it does. But RWAs mission is for career authors as defined by earning money, and that definition is set at $1,000 per book. If you disagree with the mission, then your choice is to either elect a group to change the mission or to seek an organization that has a mission in alignment with your needs.

Personally, I agree with the mission and I intend to stay a member. I want someone to advocate for me earning at least $1,000 per book. RWA doesn’t care if you do it with a single advance or with royalties. I think that’s totally reasonable. As for education about digital rights or epubs–yeah I’m all for that. I think it can be accomplished within standards.


Lise Horton

in June 20th, 2009 @ 13:13

Actually, Mystery Writers of America does permit unpublished members to join at an associate level.


Arwen

in June 20th, 2009 @ 14:02

Maggie. I agree with the mission of RWA as well. It states:
“The mission of Romance Writers of America is to advance the professional interests of career-focused romance writers through networking and advocacy. RWA works to support the efforts of its members to earn a living, to make a full-time career out of writing romance—or a part-time one that generously supplements his/her main income. ”

I do not believe that the current RWA is upholding this mission statement for all members. I believe that by ignoring the aspect of digital publishing as valid that the current RWA is not advancing my interests as a published (PAN-qualified who simply hasn’t turned in the statements for a plethora of reasons) writer.

My current income does “generously supplement” my income.

My question remains this:

Why am I , as a digitally published author, seen as neither fish nor fowl? Where do I fit into the scheme of published vs unpublished? Why is the money I make as an author for EC (w/a Marilu Mann) any less valid than the money Deidre Knight makes writing for Signet?

It seems to carry the same weight when I pay my yearly dues to this organization. So I’m really puzzled why I land in the land of the terminally marginalized.

How is this possible?

I am sincerely interested in why I am one of the red-headed stepchildren of an organization I have loved and worked for at local and, yes, National level?

It is about validation for me. It does feel like I am not good enough to eat at the “adults” table.

So yes, I will absolutely agree that this is personal to me.

And shouldn’t it be?


Melissa Blue

in June 20th, 2009 @ 14:03

“I’ve published 5 non-fiction books and made tens of thousands of dollars on them, yet I’m not bucking to be recognized by RWA as published because I know the rules and am working to achieve them.”

Romance Writers of America. That’s the name of the organization. Not non-fiction writers of America. We are asking the organization that is supposed to represent us to represent our book in the Romance genre. We are asking to be allowed the same perks as our fellow published authors. Every year authors have attempted to follow the rules. Every year RWA changes those rules. On the face the rules do not appear to be appear to be discriminatory. Until you hit “mass-prouduced”.

What kind of publishers did they have in mind when they made that rule? What percentage are not qualified to enter? Only e-published and small press authors. I’ve published short stories and made over a thousand dollars on them, but I’m not bucking to be recognized as PAN because I know the rules and knew them when I joined.

“Personally, I think RWA does a marvelous job helping to educate unpublished writers in the craft.”

By craft I’m going to assume you mean the mechanics of writing. So what about the industry? To truly be a career-focused author you need to know the industry. The industry is made up of Small Presses, E-Press, Big NY houses their editors and agents. I stand by RWA is doing ALL their members a disservice by not educating them.

Maybe I haven’t looked around their website good enough, but where are the reports they put together? I want to see the same information they have to make my own decision. I’m sorry, but to make an informed decision you just don’t go by someone’s say so.

“What you need to ask yourself is how much does RWA need to bend at the national level on the “published” author and “recognized” publisher level?”

And, so it makes sense for publishers to bend to RWA?

“I agree with whoever commented that if a publisher can show that 80% (or even 50%) of their authors are earning out at $1,000 or more they should be recognized.”

This I can agree with. Yet at the same time I want to see those same numbers for Big NYs. Do 80 percent or even 50 percent of their authors ever pay out their advance? How many books does it take to break even and make a profit?

Using your own words I am wondering, however, if any publisher can say that. However, I wonder if 80% earn out at that? I don’t think so. How about 50%?”

Let me see the numbers and then I can make the decision on my own.


Melissa Blue

in June 20th, 2009 @ 14:05

Wowser. Forgot to cut what I didn’t use in quotes.


Maddie James

in June 20th, 2009 @ 14:40

Ms Pershing, I respectfully disagree. RWA no longer represents me. I’m struggling to even get through your response. I’ve been an RWA member since 1989. I print pubbed before I epubbed. I had to fight to get into PAN because the NY publisher I contracted with offered me a flat fee with foreign royalties only contract on my books. Oh, you don’t qualify, RWA said. Nearly 20 pubbed books later and a dozen more contracts into the future, most of those digitally published, I find the same thing happening. I have to admit that I can’t wade through all you have said here because I really don’t think you know beans about the digital publishing industry. Your responses speak to that. For example, you offer that RWA brought in a high qualified speaker about digital publishing to the PRO retreat last year. Why to PRO? Why not to PAN? This one thing says that you don’t recognize digital publishing as published. This needs to change.

As to the numbers not reflecting the need for change in RWA, you may be surprised if you truly looked into it. Off the top of your head, how many RWA members are digitally published? Can you tell us?


KB Alan

in June 20th, 2009 @ 14:46

Linda Howard said: “We finally settled on the most salient point, which is that, regardless of what decision a writer makes about whether or not to go the e-pub route, overall the business model that pays an advance is the best in the long run for the security of the writer.”
I fully believe that the board members are attempting to help writers. I don’t think the board is failing us out of malice, but they are failing us all the same. I don’t need or want the board to make the decision you quoted above. That is not what I look to them for. I need them to provide me the information, heck, you can even make a recommendation, but don’t make the decision which results in a complete lack of information on the other side. You yourself pointed out that it was a difficult decision. Because there are a lot of valid reasons to choose one over the other, or some combination of the two. Which is my point. It’s not your decision to make, because some of the reasons for or against carry more weight with me personally than the author next to me. We need to be, want to be, responsible enough for our careers to make the decisions. But by making it yourself first, you are denying us the information that we need.

Maggie Jaimeson said: “I did not read any judgment into Diane’s response.”
I will respectfully disagree with you on this one and point to your own and Linda Howard’s responses as examples of being able to state your points without coming across as condescending or disrespectful. I have no problem with seeing an alternate view point. I WANT to see an alternate viewpoint. That is not what Ms. Pershing offered, so I’m not going to bother replying to her.

Maggie said: “Some posters here also seem to feel that because the standards don’t “recognize” epubs for free workshops or floor space, that the message is then that anyone who is epubbed is unpubbed or less than everyone else.”
I think that you are lumping a couple of things together here. The lack of “recognition” to epublishers at nationals results in a lack of information and opportunity to writers interested in that path. The letters from the president and the attitudes that many have encountered at nationals, face to face, in response to being epublished, the inability of those who want to enter prestigious contests due to their “fallen through the cracks” status, those things (and others) have made us feel “less than everyone else.”

Maggie said: “It seems that some people want the organization to simply recognize (I assume that means PAN membership) anyone who is published by a non-subsidy/non-vanity publisher no matter what amount of money they make–$10, $100. I have to say a strongly disagree with that sentiment.”
Other than the suggestion that RWA abolish the PAN/PRO separation, I don’t think anyone has suggested that the $1000 requirement for PAN should be made smaller. IMO, the point has been more that it discriminates against authors who write shorter works and that it a laughable benchmark in determining who is “career-focused”. It’s more the $1000 advance which makes no sense for the epub business model that is under attack. There must be a better way to determine which publishers are legitimate professionals not out to take the authors for everything they have (and many suggestions have been offered above).

Maggie said: “Personally, I think RWA does a marvelous job helping to educate unpublished writers in the craft.”
You are right. They’ve just failed to educate me on the publishing career that I choose to pursue. As someone mentioned, if it were called Print Published Romance Writers of America, I would happily go away. But it’s not. I joined an organization called Romance Writers of America. It’s MY organization, just as much as it is yours, and I will fight to get the information I need from it.

Maggie said: “I want someone to advocate for me earning at least $1,000 per book. RWA doesn’t care if you do it with a single advance or with royalties. I think that’s totally reasonable. As for education about digital rights or epubs–yeah I’m all for that. I think it can be accomplished within standards.”
That would be great, if it were true. Unfortunately, it is not. Yes, I can become PAN because my first months royalties easily outstripped that requirement. However, that education that you are all for is denied to me because the publishers that I am with, or would like to pursue, are not allowed to present their information at nationals. And because RWA ignores them, they choose not to educate me about them. Which means they choose not to educate me about a valid and worthwhile publishing opportunity. That is where they are failing me and where they are failing you.


Tina Burns

in June 20th, 2009 @ 15:03

@Eva. Thanks, I didn’t mean to imply that it wasn’t my fight, so I hope that’s not